Rachael Maves: Hello everyone. You are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I am your host, Rachael Maves, today we are talking to Chaka Booker, the chief people officer for the broad foundation and family office. Before his current role, Chaka was the managing director for the broad Center, a national nonprofit dedicated to leadership development, where he partnered with over 40 organizations annually. He has traveled extensively to develop Talent Advanced Dei initiatives and build Partnerships, while Consulting for nonprofits, universities, foundations and startups. A Pahara fellow at the Aspen Institute and a Forbes contributor on leadership and Entrepreneurship, Chaka is also the author of two books: the empowered candidate: the power you have to land the job you deserve, and mastering the hire: 12 strategies to improve your odds of finding the best hire, which I just have to say as a high note, our CEO has made all of us read and it's fantastic sh. That's great.

He earned degrees in economics and psychology from UCLA and an MBA from Stanford University. Chaka, thank you for joining me today.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, it's great to be here, really excited to be able to chat with you about all things related to leadership education Summit and anywhere else that our conversation goes. And anytime I hear like that introduction there, I'm always like: did what? Who was that? When did? That. So in some ways, that feels good, in some ways is like, oh man, that's going to make people think that I'm more I am.

And it's like a yeah, good job, waiting, amazing work, we do need that every now. And then, right, like yeah, okay, I'm doing all right.

Rachael Maves: Yes, that's right, abolutely. I love to start Chaka. I mean, one of the things that we really value at Parsec and I know that you know this and we'll talk about the summit in just a second but is elevating story and giving voice to story, and so we always lead with the like just that question and opportunity to share a little bit about your J Journey. What led you to your current role, what piqu your interest and drove you into the work that you're in? And I'd just love to hear from you that Journey, yeah, I mean.

Chaka Booker: So I'm going to go way back, but I'll fast forward us. But so my mom was a teacher, my dad was a social worker and they actually met working at a group home together here in La, so I was Bor and raised in Los Angeles, and so, in some ways, I think like the desire to help, to work with people, to improve conditions of communities and individuals is in My DNA, right? Somehow because of who both of them were or are, I should say, or were than still are but they were teachers and social workers. And my dad, though, was also like he had a real strong entrepreneurial side to him, so we always had you know what we think of a side ourselves. Now, right, you know not enough to like. You know you have him stop working, but he was always doing something on his side, and I remember him telling me: like, don't ever work for anyone, like, work for yourself, work for yourself.

And I actually took his advice when I came out of college. Initially, I didn't take a job. I started a Tutoring company, so I was tutoring in college to pay the bills. I loved it, loved working with kids, I loved learning, I loved seeing the light bues come on. I tutored Math and Science and reading, and I said: you know what? All right, I want to start my own thing.

So I started a Tutoring company doing exactly that, ended up having three emploees but pretty quickly realized that one I was getting pulled away from what I really loved, which was working with students, and I didn't really understand how to run an organization. Right, I didn't really know how to do that. I was doing all kinds of. I mean, when I look back on it, I think I was like printing people's. Checks that software. I can tell you that looking stuff up like, what taxes am I supposed to take out of this?

So U apologies to anyone from however many years ago who may have gotten may have gotten your TX. So what I did then was I looked around and I said, okay, where can I learn how to do this? So my brain was still like I want to kind of create my own thing. So I started working for a nonprofit here in latic that did after school in Richmond, so the after school space out of school time, and that was incredible. They had contract with districts all across California so I got a chance to understand how school systems work. I learned a lot about the after school space.

I was still doing the work of working with students, but I was leading a team that did it as well, so I had a chance to still be in schools every day in the after school space math, science, primarily teaching and how to run an organization. So that kind of intersection of like how do you run an organization by still doing something impactful. Right, that's stuck with me. And then the next step there was I realized that and this is something that I still see but, yeah, nonprofits are filled with, like really passionate people. Yeah, but they're not always trained on how to like take that organization to the next level. Right there.

Just there's a cap on kind of what you can. We can learn that environment. And, by the way, I've seen that in other Industries as well. Like I work with some startups. So you have like Founders who are like brilliant a startup organization, but they're not necessarily great leaders or great managers right, they're just really good at this one thing. So it's not a thing that's specific to nonprofit.

I think it's a thing that's specific to kind of like people who really love something and then build an organization around it. So I was like, okay, I want to learn more, so that send me to business school. So I went to business school, cuz I was like, okay, I can get some formal training on this. And again there I saw like an intersection of all these different people coming from different paths, learning things from each other, and that really started me thinking on, okay, I like being at intersections, these things that overlap whether I go back to my dad and like side houses and also doing impactful work to kind of me deciding where I want to go next. And that's what led me to the Broad Foundation and all the things related to Broad. Part of it was also my wife works for LA Unified, so we knew we were coming back to La, so there's a geographic constraint, but within that, this place that was focused on public education, which is where I ended up working within that World, but also, you know, biomedical research, the Arts, Workforce Development now.

So intersections plus kind of this real strong entrepreneurial thinking behind it, B thinking behind it, yeah, and I'm currently TP officer now for the last three years, but before that the body of my work there was all around leadership development in public education and that shaped like a lot of how I think it shapes like the Consulting of work I do on the side and other Industries. It shapes how I think about organizational performance in general when I'm advising and Consulting. But yeah, that's kind of the journey right froming I want to do my own thing to where I am now.

Rachael Maves: Well, and you're bringing such a unique perspective of that education lens but that business lens and what those best practices look like and how do we intertwine and intersect those to get the best out of the work that we're doing in our leadership. It's such a huge need.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, you're, I, me ultimately you're trying to find those, the places where they intertwin and support each other, because sometimes it can feel like there's tensions between, like, nonprofit and business or business practices, and I definitely experienced that and I think some of that is some of that is true, because when your outcome is another person's life right, like if you're in education, the outcome is that is a child and their opportunities and their family, like that's really what you're shooting for. It's not the same as when you're in the business world, where the outcome is you know, I'm going to call it a widget but like something that is not, yeah, a human being. So you do have to make some adjustments on how you think about these things, but there are core practices and processes that can allow us, particularly from an organizational standpoint or leadership standpoint, to do much better at getting really strong and powerful outcome. So it is that it is that balance, that Nuance out that if you're in this world, you want to try to figure out.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, and that's kind of a perfect segue, Chaka into this you next section that we're going to talk through. One of the reasons that I'm really excited to have you on the podcast here today is also your involvement in our upcoming Summit. So for our listeners, every year Parsec holds a summit is called measure. What we value, and really it is to hit at this emphasis in the importance of engaging in elevating voices and experience of students, particularly those who are for the sperm opportunity within our education system, and you are joining us. We're so excited as one of our keynote speakers, you're going to be leading this topic around bias, disrupted datadriven, leadership for unbiased decision-making, and I'd love for you just to share a little bit about what this is going to be, about what our participants can expect. And I would just say, for those of you listening and we'll talk about this again later it is February 5th and 6th we would love to have you join us in Fresno, California, to hear from some of the great leaders, like Chaka.

But tell us a little bit about this keynote, Chaka, and why it's significant today.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, so what I'm going to share is: so when I mentioned so, I was at the broad Center initially for like 16 years and that's where we did the leadership Dev all at work and, in short, what we did was the way it started, was the idea was kind of recruiting people from outside of public education, but people who had that kind of business skill set, and bring them into organizations, public education organizations, districts, State Department of Education. We've actually started working with Charters. We even work with the federal department of education for a while. We're bringing them in to help fix those processes, the idea being like we can get better at hrp, we can get better at Finance, at strategic planning, Etc. We can drive some efficiencies that help these organizations run better so that the outcome, which obviously is all about students and families, can be improved because we're running things better. That was the idea behind it, right?

So how do we bring know how to do that?

Rachael Maves: And Chaka, can I just really quickly highlight the significance of that for people who maybe don't know like, in education, your focus is so much on pedagogy or instruction and Child Development and, yes, leadership for our administrators, but there isn't, like this, really deep dive into what are those business principles, because in education you really are still running a business. You have a budget, you have HR, you have all of these components and that's not necessarily where that deep focus is. So what, Broad does that you just highlighted that is so vital, is bringing in people like yourself from the business sector that do have those really deep understandings in specific areas, than to partner with districts to Really strengthen whatever that targeted need is a massive gift for Education.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, it was. I mean it's, it's incredible program. It still continues, now slightly different form, but which I can, which I can actually touch on in terms of the evolution of that and how it ties to what we'll talk about at the summit. But yeah, bringing in people who understand how to run organizations really well is super important. You also again have to have that there's. There's always that tension.

You have to be those people. Then have to understand what it means to do this work in education. So that was part of what the organization did was like you can't just come in and just like run things the same way you did. You're in the private sector. This is a there's a different culture here. There's a different output here.

There's a different set of stakeholders that you're working with and that means that like we had to run a program but we could support people, because that's not easy to do. It's that easy for them to transition to the work. It's that easy for the organizations to understand how do we absorb this person and really tap into it? But they bring, but we figured it out, and not without stumbles along the way, but you figure out how to do that well, the other thing with running a program like that is and this happened early on and we also started adjust this, I remember, like very proactively is when you bring in people from the outside, in some ways you signal, where you're signaling implicitly we didn't mean it, but you're implicitly signaling that the people that are already there aren't good enough. Right, and you have to be thoughtful about that. Bringing people in who then know how to build relationships, make sure they don't come across like I have you all the answers.

You've been promoting it for the last 15 years, so there's a lot of stuff that you really have to do well to run that kind of a lot of lessons learned. And the program now as you all and now ises at Yale, at the School of Management there, but they focus on training people who are currently in the system on these exact same things, right on how to become better leaders of managers, which I think is an incredible model and wonderful model, because there's a ton of super talented people inside the system. So you can either bring people in or you can try to support the people that are there. So that's the context of what we did. Now, what I'm going to talk about at the summit was we were probably I don't know 10 years into doing this and doing really well through the lens of diversity, right, like had really diverse corts, felt really good about that work. We were being intentional about it and we started notice a pattern, though on our recruitment weekends.

We'd have these weekends where we'd interview a bunch of people and I won't go like too deep into the weeds and like kind of like steal the Thunder from what I'll share. I mean, I'm assuming there's goingon to be thunder, but I don't want to steal the big surprise or whatever it is. But in short, we realized that there was bias in our processes. In short, right, and I'm going to share some of the data on that like how did we know that, right? Cuz I do think like if you have data and you can help understand some of these things, use it, because bias is sometimes one of those things we feel, particularly as a person of color on black, like sometimes I'm like I don't need data, like I'm feeling this, I know exactly kind of what I'm experiencing, but sometimes to make the case and really just to help move an organization, you want to, you need data. So we were very fortunate to have data.

We had data that showed that there was bias bu into our processes and then we did some really hard work for about four years or so following that, where we contined to collect data and we learned how to disrupt bias right, and because we had data, we could track it every single year, every single interview. Almost you could see, okay, what are we doing, what are the practices that work and don't work. So we really have this focus on data and how to improve our practices and we saw what worked. So part of it is about talking about data and how you can make better decisions on something that is kind of just in our heads right bias but part of it is that process help me understand how to make better decisions period. So it started off about kind of just how do we interview better and assess people better, and it now has continued to carry over everything I do, whether it's protruding, whether it's onboarding, whether it's giving feedback. But how do you think, how do you make decisions?

What are the things that get in the way of making effective decisions? And that would be kind of the other kind of half of the keynote is talking about those other Lessons Learned and how that shaped kind of my approach to lead, leadership and managing. So that's the keynote, right? So there's actually going to be two parts. There's going to be the keynote where I'm going to have to stay relatively high level. I've got like 30 minutes so can't get too deep in the weeds.

Fortunately, the way the this is set up at the Summit is I'm then going to have an opportunity to do a workshop. After that we can get into the weeds and the and some actual practices so people have stuff that they can take home would been actually put into play. So, knowing just our audience, that School leaders. Practitioners and that they're going to have the opportunity. I love how we've built this out and really appreciate your willingness to kind of hold these two different places the Kyo and then diving deeper into the session. Can you give us just like one teaser that for people to like be able to Anchor onto of what they could expect as they dive deeper into some of the session with you?

Yeah,. So I'll give it. I'll give it a quick example of kind of how to disrupt bias, just a very specific one that I think applies whether you're interviewing teachers or interviewing someone in cental office or interviewing a board member or anything, and this practice is called first impression parking, first impression parking and it applies also, by the way, across the board on all kinds of things, not just interviewing, kind of any moments that you have when you're engaging with stakeholders or you have a new team member or anything, and the idea is like our brains make decisions very quickly. Lots of research behind that right, these heuristics that we need on. So that's, that's natural. But Society also tells us things about groups of people, like we are constantly fed things about groups of people, whether it's because of their race or their gender or their religion or their age right, or whether they're from lgbtq.

You fill in the blank on all the things Society tells us. Those things overlap with those heris sixs, with those very quick decision-making things that happen in our brain and very quickly we make decisions about people, about human beings. This applies to students as well. Tons of research out there around the differences between how we react to a black student versus a white student. Same behavior, but we've been told certain things. And now kids talking up in class: if it's a black kid, then this kid is interrupting.

They're rude. There a white student? Oh, they're precocious, they're curious. These things that Society kind of puts into our brains they overlap into these very quick decisions that we make and we suddenly start, we start making decisions that aren't actually good with strong decisions, right. So that applies kind of wherever you are and kind any decision making that you're making, and whether you working with students, you're working with new teachers, you're working with staff in Central office, so first impression. Parking basically says: start noticing your first impression.

Just start noticing when you meet someone. You don't have to wait till you interview or give of, give performance feedback or interact with a parent or a student, just in everyday life. What do you immediately notice about people? To start noticing that about yourself, right? What do you notice? Like I notice people's shoes, by the way.

Like I, for some reason, I look at. Shoes and I remember this, like in, and I noticed shoes and socks completely irrelevant, right, and my co- interviews used to make fun of me because, like I, for some reason I didn't like striped socks, and this was like a running joke for a while. And I'm now past this bias and this sounds Harless, but you'll start noticing these little things that really, in some ways, don't matter, but in some ways they do matter, right, because I also would notice whether or not someone made eye contact or not, and a lot of us notice that, like, the person doesn't make eye contact. But some of these things are related to upbringing, social economic status, cultural background, Etc. And when you're in the moment where you're making decisions, these little things can get in the way. Shoes, like for me, was because I grew up, didn't have a lot of money, I had like one or two pair of shoes, so I always had to keep them super clean.

So I always notice people's shoes, but that could be connected to social economic status, like I started noticing, like if somebody was wearing cowboy in an interview for some reason, right, like and like, I'm already making judgments cuz like I would never, or their shoes would run down, or they fill in the blank on all these things, immediately I'm already thinking something and I haven't even met the person, I'm not assessing them, right, and this can happen in any M where you're making decision about a person that across the table from you. Eye contact is another one. In the western culture, our culture here, right, we view like making eye contact that means trust. Right, if you're look, trust me. But in a lot of Eastern cultures you're not supposed to make eye contact with people in position of authority, right, you don't make eye contact, like, not with people. With older people, you don't make eye contact.

So not making eye contact actually is a difference. It's like you're showing respect, right, so I could be making all these decisions about somebody because they're not looking me in the eye and I'm not sure you're taking into account these cultural differences. And these things are things that happen very quickly. You want to park those first impressions, be aware of them, put them to the side. Is what you're saying. The reason the language is parking is because one of the things that I share with people when you have these quick decisions is sometimes some of these quick decisions are valid.

The ones I just gave you are not valid, but sometimes they are. You just don't know. In the moment you have no idea. Is this actually the right way? I should be thinking so put it aside and by thinking of it as parking, it helps people get over the hump of like: oh, you're telling me my intuition is wrong. Like my intuition actually have really good intuition.

H, number one, I'd say data would say: like our intuition isn't always that good, but intuition is domain specific. Like intuition is really good in some areas and not in others. So the there's all these like things that we can learn to do right, like first impression parking. When you're making decisions, when you're meeting people, when you're assessing someone student, teacher, parent fill in the blank practices that help us overcome the way our brains work will equ. So in the workshop section there's a lot of things like that: are very quick, very easy. You can figure out how to do them.

You can literally start doing them tomorrow. That improve how you make decisions, kind of regardless of where you are in an organization, or kind of who your stakeholder yeah, you know who the Staker is, that you're that you're working with.

Rachael Maves: I love Chaka. That th like this is the tangible one that you're giving as an example. When I was reading your book, we are and I think maybe you know this, but at Park we are just growing really fast and so we are in this like constant state of hiring and bringing more people on. And as I was going through it, that was one of the very first things that stood out to me was like such a simple, quick way as I'm coming into the interview just to log it, like noticing like whatever is coming up for me, putting it to the side, doing that parking lot, and it really did like shift as I came into the interview. Then it almost like gave my brain one a place to like: okay, I'm going to acknowledge it, hold it and I'm going to put it here and now I can kind of enter in to the interview, and a very different way it. I really appreciated how simple that was and the impact then that it has to be able to, I think, just come into a conversation.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, it's those kind of the things that you got to give your brain a pause to actually focus on what it needs to focus on. Otherwise it just goes into kind of the quick mode and we don't. We don't realize when those things happen. And the good thing about practices like that is, over time you start to realize how quickly you've been making decisions in the past because you start adjusting. In the moment you start realizing: oh my God, I just noticed this person shoots like actually start, and before you didn't, before you didn't notice that you noticed something.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, you notice what you're noticing. So there, underlying kind of F line around a lot of these types of things, is: what's thought? Is mindfulness right, which, like sometimes people associated with yoga, right, or something? I go, we're going to go do yoga, which, by the way, just side note, there's research that sense says doing yoga leads to better decisions. Just, there won't be a yoga session right at the summit. I'm not, I've done yoga once or twice, unbelievably difficult, but yo puts you in this space of like being aware of, like all these things, putting aside judgment, like there's, there is this thing about that, it, this mind State, but the idea is, noticing what you're thinking is really we don't, we don't often pause and this applies anywhere, like any decision making.

So, yeah, decision- making and how it helped me think about decision- making and some of the things I'll be talking about is really about how do you make better decisions when it comes to people, which. Are probably. I mean, we are the most complex thing. Like that, we interact with right human being and you, how do you? How do you work with them? Y, how do you work?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, so, as you think about coming and joining us in February and delivering this keynote in this session, what are you most looking forward to about the summit?

Chaka Booker: Yeah, I mean, some of this is going to tie back to that theme. I said at the very beginning about intersections. Like you know and I forget who said it, maybe it was Steve Jobs there was someone who once said, like you know, when I look back, I see the intersection as this theme in my life. Right, it wasn't like I planned to that moving forward, like, oh, I'm going to go find these intersections, and sometimes we tell these stories as though we just had this grand plan, but when you look back, you see patterns of like, oh, this is where I learned and I feel like the Summit is one of those places of intersection. And now that I've kind of identified it, now that I've had the chance to reflect right and think about: oh, what is it that allowed me to kind of learn what I learned or kind of build the network that I built Etc, and the pattern I saw for myself was like intersections right, places where there's different people coming together, right, there's movement, there's ideas there intersection are somewhere where you can not just look like two directions but you can actually look four directions right, like there's a lot of places to look, there's a little bit of friction, that kind of thing. So the summit for me represents that like a chance to meet with people working like folks in education, but coming at it from different types of organizations, different roles, right, different perspectives.

I'm coming in with also kind of what I've learned working across a range of sectors. So what's exciting is learning from people sitting in on sessions as well. Right, so I'm coming to present and do my workshop, but I, anytime I go to a conference, I want to go sit in and say like, okay, what are other people thinking about? Because it makes me and what I do so much stronger. My day-to-day work right now isn't in public education as much as it was during the first 16 years, so I still intersect with it every day because of my wife, who was in schools every day. So a lot of what we talk about at home is about public education, but my work has now split across a couple different sectors.

So just a chance of being a room where that is the focus yeah, is really exciting because I remember that when I worked with the Bro Center like that was what was so awesome was like to be in a room with people and were all really thinking about the same kind of f. Want to improve X, but we're coming at it from different ways. So that's what this feels like, yeah, and I think one of the things last year was my first year attending the summit and for me, what stood out is, in the midst of all those things you're talking about, that we bring in and highlight and allow students to share, like what their experiences are, what their stories are, like the real raw, good, bad and ugly.

Rachael Maves: [speaker uncertain] It just STS in this perspective and engagement in a whole different way and the what it spurred in those conversations then afterwards was just nothing like I had ever experienced before.

Chaka Booker: I so, yeah, it's. It reminds me of a lesson we learned when we were running our programs, because we didn't do that in the beginning and it was a huge mistake, right, and you come, like we came into the work really just thinking about like how do we bring these people in who have this really unique skill set? Eventually we got much better at it, but I don't know the last five, seven, eight years of the program we did exactly that. I mean student voice, it sh. It challenges everything. Like you think you know what you're supposed to do but you're not even talking to the person who's most affected by it.

So, yeah, it is exciting that definitely looking yeah.

Rachael Maves: So, as we wrap up, I'd love just to give you the final word for our listeners, any Sage advice, thoughts to ponder, whatever you would like to leave people with.

Chaka Booker: So, all right, Sage advice. So I mean, here's I'm going to give you something that I'm, that I'm thinking about, right, this, something that kind of keeps me up at night. Right was what was a thought I had, and what that means is I'm not going to have like a practical answer for this right, but I'm sharing it because I think all of us should be trying to figure this out, I think, particularly in the world of Education, where the outcomes are so dramatic and it has to do with kind of the workforce and like and shifts that are coming. And I'd love, like when I see Folks at Summit, if anyone watches this, like, come tell me what you think like, how do you think about this.

Rachael Maves: So here's the oh I love this call to action. This is great.

Chaka Booker: Yes, per, I need, I think, what I'm going to share here I'm. The reason I'm noodling on it is because I don't think the answer is right. So I feel like there's two big things that are shaping kind of the workforce and how we do work right, there's many things, but two things that are kind of keeping me up at night. So one is what they call the silver tsunami. So there's a Baby Boomers are retiring, so you have this huge number of folks leaving the workforce and that's going to affect us in public education, right from teachers to principes, all throughout the whole, throughout the whole system, right, and it's something like 4 million a year. Like the numbers are huge.

It's like 10,000 a day right. So anywhere between 3.5 to 4 million. So that is a ton of wisdom. Gu leading are our Force, our systems, Etc. Like knowledge, institutional knowledge, wisdom, and we don't do a great job of like figuring out how do we capture institutional knowledge. So there's some work to be done there.

I actually think, like I think I have some ideas about how to solve that. So you have outgoing wisdom. At the same time, you have an incoming generation of workers right that are very different than the outco force now, in first brush, right, if I say incoming generation of workers, we're going to think Generation Z, gen Z, different expectations around work right, Etc. So there a whole conversation about like generational differences, which I would say don't anchor on too hard, come back to that, but like that might be like okay, but I actually have been listening and learning a lot and the generation of workers that I'm actually talking about here. It's going to be buzzwordy, but it's AI, right, artificial intelligence. I actually think we need to think about AI as a generation of workers, because the more I listen to how they talk about Ai and the more I start inter interacting with it.

Is a generation of workers. This whole idea about it replacing jobs is a real thing, right. How big of a deal that's going to be. What jobs? Lots of question marks, but that means there's a generation of workers coming in. Right, they have to be trained right, they make mistakes.

They're going to come with you to meetings. They have personalities, they you're going to delegate to them. There's something called agents or agentic AI, where they're going to work with each other. This is gonna be some kind of shift where you have an outgoing group of folks who have wisdom and an ing grouping generation of workers not people, right, but workers who are doing things for you, that have like analytical horsepower, but it's not we. So there's something there that, over like next two to three years, I think we're going to have to really pay close attention to like how do we lead, how do we interact with each other? How do we train our managers and our team members to work with each other, to work with an AI agent?

How do we not lose kind of the human piece of what it means to work together? Tap into the technology because it's coming. Like we canot want it, we can try to wait and see, but it's coming. So something in Doodle on like what does that mean? Is the thing that I ask folks to think about, and if you have answers, let me know, because I'm trying to figure out what it could mean, because I do think it just going to shift one way or another. It's going to shift how we work, so big.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, Chaka, I think we might have to do another follow-up podcast just to talk about this, because it is I mean, it is a hot butt, an issue right now in education, as we're talking about it and I know, in other sectors as well, but especially in education. I have lots of get into the weeds with you on sometime. All right, I just want to say thank you, Chaka, for your time today. I really appreciate you coming and looking forward to having you at the summit, getting to see you in person, but then also your keynote and the session.

Chaka Booker: Yeah, Rachael, looking forward to it, great to being here with you for the time that we have and, yeah, looking forward to next time that we connect.

Rachael Maves: Thanks, wonderful, and for our listeners, Parsec education, just as a reminder, is hosting the measure. What we value Summit on February 5th and 6th in Fresno, California. Don't miss out on our limited time 25% discount on tickets. Join us for an impactful conversation around empathy, engagement, hard truths and more, alongside of leaders like Chaka that you've heard today, Rich stole, Jamila lcot, AKA Dr J, and student speakers like Liliana Sanchez. Early bird pricing ends soon. Secure your spot today and you can get your tickets at parsecsummit.com.

---

This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.