Rachael Maves: Hello everyone, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are talking to Jenny Lam. Jenny is a transformative education leader with 25 years of experience driving systemic change for students and families across city and state levels. As past president of the San Francisco Board of Education, she led critical governance reforms and championed accountability measures that prioritize student outcomes during one of the district's most challenging periods.

strengthening public trust through transparent, results-focused leadership. Currently Director of Policy, Communications and Strategic Partnerships at the San Francisco Department of Early Childhood and formerly Education Advisor to Mayor London Breed, she has shaped landmark citywide initiatives expanding universal child care, mental health services and schools, broadband connectivity and free city college. Before joining government, Jenny served as State Engagement Manager at Education Superhighway

leading initiatives that connected 47 million students nationwide to broadband for digital learning, bridging the digital divide at scale. Born and raised in the Bay Area and a first generation college graduate, lives in San Francisco with her husband and two children. Jenny, thank you for joining me today.

Jenny Lam: Thanks so much for having me.

Rachael Maves: Well, I'm really excited to connect with you and just hearing a little bit about your background and the lenses and perspectives you're bringing. Tell me a little bit about how your path in education came about.

Jenny Lam: Well, it truly has been a fulfilling career in education. I'm a daughter of immigrants, a granddaughter of war. it was really an opportunity of a lifetime when my family immigrated to Oakland, California, the year that I was born. And just seeing firsthand as a English learner, one of the few children who didn't speak English the day I started kindergarten really shaped

my educational experience as a first generation, ultimately college graduate. And I still think so fondly to the teachers that I've had through the years who gave, who really saw the potential in me at times I didn't even see in myself. And the, when I started working with young people,

Also seeing that feeling, that reward of being a mentor, being in the classroom, loving working directly with families really spoke to why I felt it was so important to continue my and develop my career in education, ultimately being in governance and policy levels.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. So tell me a little bit about what drove you to be on the board. I mean, that is not an easy job. To be on the board, let alone the board president, let alone in a district like San Francisco that is massive and for so many years. I mean, how did you come into that space and what was that experience like?

Jenny Lam: The story goes is that, for, worked in nonprofit organizations for two decades, starting working in Oakland public schools, directly in classrooms with students and working with educators and families, to then coming back to San Francisco, working in a civil rights organization. And there I led the K-12 education initiatives locally here in San Francisco for that civil rights organization. And for years I had been asked,

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Jenny Lam: by various individuals. Would I run for office one day? Would I run for school board? And I kept saying, no, not this time. I really felt like I was making an impact at the local level. And finally, when I joined Education Superhighway, I got to travel and work with states around the country. Our team worked directly with 30 governors in their state departments of education. And in my own portfolio, I got to work with seven states.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: And that's where I saw at scale the policies that are possible from the school district level to the State Department of Education levels. And so when I joined, Mayor Breed asked me to join her administration leading the portfolio of education from early childhood all the way to post-secondary. And when a position became open, a seat became open for the San Francisco Board of Education.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Jenny Lam: she finally asked, she asked me and after 10 years of saying no to many individuals, I said yes to serving on the board of education. And it was a dual role. I also was serving as her education, as the education advisor while being on the school board. So I really had the perspective of that continuum from birth to post-secondary.

Rachael Maves: Hmm.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, well and not only that but that I think bridge between school and community and then the public office piece as well which I would say I'm sure made a huge impact in those conversations and planning and policy discussion.

Jenny Lam: and the opportunities for that systemic approach. And also being a parent, I became a San Francisco public school parent in 2009 while I was working in community. So I could see firsthand the policies that were being discussed or decided upon how they would land for my children and their education at their schools. But then I was also working with schools and families all around the cities and also seeing the inequities.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Mm.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Jenny Lam: of resources, how families received information, how they were coming together as a community. So I knew full circle, you know, the moment that any decisions that I made while on the school board were not just impacting my own children, but children or 49,000 children every day and also for generations of students to

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. So from that lens and I mean really that piece of policy that you hold and you've been entrenched in, what keeps you up at night? What are the things weighing on you as you think about our current educational context?

Jenny Lam: Still three core issues are keeping, know, making me really think about what is the path forward? What are the opportunities that lie ahead, not only for public education, but for young people and their lives that they will get to choose upon for themselves? One is the chronic absenteeism that continues to remain.

We still have yet to get back to pre-pandemic numbers. I think the question is not only about, you know, so how do we get students back into school or back to the classrooms? It really, the question to be discussed is how are we engaging students and families in their school communities? What is it going to take in order for the families and children and students to be engaged in

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: what is happening in their school communities. And we know the potential. We've seen the research, for example, through community schools. We know that if that school is truly a community hub that looks at supporting the child holistically in the whole entire household, that then that student and that family is going to feel that someone is going to be looking out for them.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: and that they have something that they can also contribute to the broader community. The second thing that keeps me up at night is the continued slow progress in early literacy. We know the research. We know the research around how critical the third grade literacy is a marker for our students' educational attainment for the rest of their K-12 journey and beyond.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Mm, yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Jenny Lam: And so I'm really thrilled to see the state of California has now, you know, improved legislation recently that's going to, you know, with the acceleration of science-based, evidence-based literacy. And I think more importantly is, so how are we going to make that happen for students? And that's really with my work in early childhood now is setting those building blocks around.

Rachael Maves: Yes, that's right. Yeah.

Jenny Lam: having each and every child be ready for kindergarten, kindergarten readiness with the marker of early literacy and just how critical that's going to be and supporting children that if we have early interventions, we know that there are early signs of learning disabilities or what types of actions can we take early on to support that child. And again, as a English learner, I don't think I would have reached a level of English and reading proficiency

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: by third grade had it not been the small group tutoring that I received by my teacher. We were in a K-1 classroom and I think back to Mrs. Williams, know, how innovative she was, you know, my goodness, over 40 years ago. To be thinking such in a foresight around bringing students who were

Rachael Maves: Hmm.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: high levels of reading to children who are just emerging in their language and their language development and how magical that could be and end up building confidence of young readers. And that there was also, again, sense of community and that we're going to support each and every child.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yes. Yes, yeah, I love that. And so much of the research shows that, like in differentiating instruction, that when students have an opportunity to interact at all different levels together, they still grow. And they grow well together. And they close gaps significantly for those who aren't quite at mastery yet.

So I love to hear the real life example of how that impacted you as a child.

Jenny Lam: and I think also empowering educators to be able to have tools in their classrooms so they can really deploy them depending upon where their students are at and not just wait for, you know, let's say an annual or semi-annual assessments. And I think that's really the excitement that, you know, the promise and some of the early opportunities that we're seeing. And third, certainly, of course, given some uncertainty at the federal levels,

Rachael Maves: Yes. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: really needing to ensure that local school districts, state departments of education are also providing that stability, even though there are lot of uncertainty, you know, either it be funding itself, like through Title I, federal funding, through funding for special education. These are children that are most vulnerable, that are furthest from opportunity. And so

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: It's really key right now. I know it is top of mind for administrators and school district leaders and also across the country and the states around how do we steward and having the greatest educational outcomes for our students.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah. And is that your third one? You said that there were three. Is it looking at the finances and then the funding piece? And what does that mean and look like? Yeah. So I'd love to hear, I mean, with those three, chronic absenteeism, which is a huge topic right now that everyone's discussing, because you're right, nationally, we're seeing the same data, not just in California, but across the nation of the students that just have not returned. And then slow progress with early literacy.

Jenny Lam: Yes, that is my third one.

Yes.

Rachael Maves: that again, I think that's a big one, top of mind, and then education funding. What are one or two ways that from your lens and insight, you would say we can start to move forward in those areas?

Jenny Lam: The one path forward I see is that truly integrated system from birth through 12 years old. I'll even take it to the 12 years old because we know that it takes a dozen years to really support the child and their family. And that it is more of a seamless system. That it's not that, let's say, you start off in a Head Start or state-funded preschool, like in the state of California. There are intensive supports that come in for a family.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: from parenting classes, child development, how to ensure your child are meeting developmentally milestones. And if they're not, how do we get those supports for that child? And what time we heard time and time again from families that transition from, let's say, a mix, we call it the mixed delivery system that's made up of public school preschools to center base, that are nonprofit organizations, head starts. Then they start into the public system.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: And it's almost like they are thrown into the ocean and or not even realizing that child's lived experience and all the supports that were provided to them before they landed into that public school system. So I think that's going to be really important. So how do we bring early education not to see it as separate but integrated? so I'm really thrilled to see.

Rachael Maves: Right.

Jenny Lam: you know, with the transitional kindergarten coming to the state of California, because that will propel into more of a universal system. Really thrilled to see New Mexico and the governor announcing their preschool for all as well. And many other states that are, you know, and municipalities that are grappling with that, including Boston and state of Colorado as well.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate what you're saying. And you said this a little bit in the three areas that you created. We're talking about the problem too. Is you can have great policy, but the devil's in the details, right? Is how does this get implemented? And what does this look like when it actually rolls out? And does it have the impact and the effect that we thought it would? And I think about that a lot with that connection throughout the system of

how do we take the best research and learn from what we know in K-12 that we're rethinking and not have TK and some of the early childhood programs look just like we do in the factory setting, you know, but that we're really thinking through that developmental side of things and what does that mean and look like that's age appropriate for those students.

Jenny Lam: And that's the work that we're tackling right now in San Francisco. We're very fortunate to have what I would call more mature mixed delivery system that's been built over two decades. And it was very intentional how that system was built, anchored with community-based organization centers to family telecare homes, to the city's landmark investments. And that...

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: know, early ed now also within SFEOSD is very much an integrated look at, you know, from preschool to 12th grade and beyond. And I think that's where, you know, and also we need to embody what we teach our children and our students and our educators around the value around continuous learning. And that's why.

Rachael Maves: and love.

Rachael Maves: Yes, yes.

Jenny Lam: It was so important to bring that governance, student outcomes and educational outcomes governance when I was board president, is that you are consistently needing to monitor. Yes, the policies are signed, everyone's there for the photo ops, but like you said, so how does the operationalizing, the implementation, the monitoring happen?

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: When we see like, you know, if we implement certain strategies and they are just not making the progress that we had hoped for, then we need to be able to pivot. We need to be able to be honest with our stakeholders, honest with ourselves, with our educators, with our parents and families. And I think with that transparency is another key piece around that path forward.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

rape.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: when we're engaging authentically, not as a checkbox, but truly in authentic ongoing way. I think that will then provide that safe environment to test, to monitor, and then improve.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. So this is our final question for our time together, and I'm excited to see what you come up with on this one. What question in education are we not asking that we really should be?

Jenny Lam: It is top of mind, you know, with the acceleration of AI. We are hearing AI everywhere. And at the same time, you know, are we asking ourselves what will it mean? How will it change teaching and learning in the classrooms? How will it enhance the human side of

Rachael Maves: Nyeh!

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Jenny Lam: of the experience for students in the classroom? How are we supporting educators? Because we're still seeing moderate adoption, I would say, of teachers using AI on a, let's say, weekly basis. And I think school districts right now are kind of just watching, learning, monitoring, and then kind of seeing what other colleagues are doing.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Jenny Lam: And while there's certainly executive orders and other policies that are emerging from different states, think really asking like, how is it going to change how education is going to be taught?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah, I think that is, I mean, you hit on some of the, I think, biggest questions in education right now that people are trying to tackle. And AI is a huge one. I was just on another podcast previously talking about, you know, what does it look like for those who are resistant that are kind of like, no, no, no, no, we're not going to jump in. And that train is going down the tracks whether they wanted to or not. And then those who are jumping in.

you know, into the deep end and haven't defined that success criteria and are just kind of, you know, the new shiny thing and what does that look like to create some coherence in the middle and to be really strategic about how do we use this and what does that look like at just like you said at the teacher level, at the student level, at that administration level and be forward thinking with it. It'll be interesting to see how this continues to unfold.

Jenny Lam: Most definitely, also how also AI will impact systems operations on a daily basis too, right? I think that's also kind of a sleeper part of the AI piece. certainly another question that is evergreen, it seems, is how are we looking to fill that teacher shortage, but have it be a sustainable

Rachael Maves: Yes. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Jenny Lam: career and true pathway for educators. And I think there's an intersection around what that might look like with AI and the enhancements for educators in their careers.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: I'd love to get your thoughts, and if you don't have an answer to this, then that's fine, because I am kind of throwing this one at you from what you just brought up. But when you think about systems operation and you clearly have that lens for systems, if you could wave a magic wand with AI, what would you have it address? Where do you think it could be really pushing in in a way that we haven't thought of yet?

Jenny Lam: That's a great question. I would want to tackle all the different fronts that we talked about for AI because we're going to need to deep both skills development and literacy, AI literacy, right? We need to build AI literacy. I'll use the language of tier one, right? Meaning to everyone, to parents, the community, educators, administrators. And then certainly you'll have, how does that

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yes. Yeah.

Jenny Lam: impact curriculum development. And so that how do we, you know, accelerate assessments for educators so they are maximizing their time, which is the most precious thing, which is developing the relationship with the students and advancing that child's learning. then like we, you know, circling back to where we started.

Rachael Maves: at this rate.

Rachael Maves: Yes. Yes.

Rachael Maves: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jenny Lam: the greater connection a young person has with a caring adult, either it be the classroom teacher or a community of educators, that that child's gonna be more engaged in their learning and tends them wanting to be present in school. And so I think we are in a new territory that I don't think we've seen in education in many decades.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Yes.

Jenny Lam: And if there's anything to learn, and this is my perspective as a parent, around social media and what wasn't in place for Gen Z, the age of my children, I think is certainly very important that with how AI advances, that those guardrails are developed with young people and that students are learning the most important possible skill, which is critical thinking.

Rachael Maves: Thank you.

Rachael Maves: Yes, that's right.

Jenny Lam: That cannot replace the love for learning, the ongoing learning for any young person as they go into adulthood. I find myself a lifelong learner. I get really excited if there's new things to learn. And I certainly think that the future between now and the future, that that's going to be the critical piece of where AI cannot replace the human side of our learning.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you for joining me today, Jenny. This time went by so fast. It was a pleasure just connecting with you.

Jenny Lam: It was great. Thank you so much for the invitation, Rachael.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. Remember the fall is an ideal time to check in on your school's climate and culture. Parsec Real is an AI-powered platform built for gathering input from across your community. Our platform's ability to engineer questions for all audience types, reading levels, and in multiple languages grants accessibility to students and families who previously may have been unable to add their voices to the conversation. To learn more on engaging your whole community through valuable feedback, check out parseceducation.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.