Rachael Maves: Hi everyone, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today, we are speaking with Shoni Johnson. Shoni has been with Connecting Waters Charter School for 19 years, holding a BS in business management and a master's in curriculum and instruction design. She serves as the curriculum and accountability director, overseeing the instructional training, special programs, assessments, and WASC accreditation. Only just a few things there, Shoni. Shoni previously managed urgent care facilities in the Bay Area for 10 years before transitioning into education.

Shoni, thank you for joining me today.

Shoni Johnson: Thank you so much for having me.

Rachael Maves: So, I'm intrigued just listening to your introduction and a little bit about your career. Trajectory. I mean, this first question is really apppropo for you of what is it that drove you to choose a career in education?

Shoni Johnson: Well, okay. To be honest, as you mentioned in my bio, I actually started my career in healthcare administration and I really did love it. I led a really diverse team and we always worked together towards a common goal. It was great. A big part of my job there was using data and statistical analysis to help with strategic planning to figure out how to sustain the business while also meeting patient needs. Right.

But when my husband and I decided to start a family, I started thinking about a career. Change. And I'm not going to lie, the first thing I thought of was how do I get a job where I can have summers off to spend more time? Yeah. But I really wanted to be the best mom I could be. So I went back to school to learn more about child development.

And I was just instantly hooked. I realized I had a real passion for helping students reach their full potential. And I also saw firsthand how education can just truly change lives. And I just wanted to be a part of that impact. So now in education, I get to use my background in strategic planning and data analysis and curriculum development to create meaningful learning. Experiences.

I love being able to support both students and teachers as an administrator and being able to ensure they have the resources they need to succeed, you know, and honestly, there's nothing more rewarding than seeing a student grow and thrive and knowing that, in some small way, the work I do contributed to their success. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: I mean, I love that you chose the education path initially, as a mom like that and that's so normal, you know, where women are like, what is going to be conducive to being able to raise a family and still have time with my kids and maybe even work at the same. School? I was the principal of the school that my daughters went to, and I loved it. It was like the best thing ever.

Shoni Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I had no idea how much I'd really fall in love with it. So it's kind of funny cuz my husband tells people it's cuz she wanted her summer and then it blossomed into this amazing thing.

Rachael Maves: So tell me a little bit, Shoni, if you don't mind, because you have such an interesting background and you're bringing like having that strong background in data and analysis. How do you feel like it really has helped you drive change within your system?

Shoni Johnson: Gosh, that's a really good question. I, we do. I really lean on my strategic planning background and data analytics to just drive that instruction. So, I just think there's so much value in being really strategic about. What we're doing and not just, you know, haphazardly, but really from an administrative point all the way down, like helping teachers, because they can get kind of get lost in the shuffle, right? And so helping them know what their pathway is and what their plan is for student success.

So, I really lean on that strategic planning. So, we pull in all of our team. We're looking every at you know everything from you know the specialists, like for the reading specialist, the math specialist, really talking to people with our expertise and pulling the teachers in as part of that as well, and then looking at the data, and looking at the data in different ways and looking at different types of data to really tell the whole story and make sure that we're not missing. Anything. So I just think that's really important. So I, like my staff, actually gave me this little to sew onto my jacket.

It was like a little patch and it came from the Air Force and it says data. They're like they know when I walk into a room they're like, "Oh, we're going to be talking about data today." They know that I'm the data person.

Rachael Maves: I love that. And what a I mean truly what a gift to give your staff, because that's not something that every organization has. Like, somebody that knows data, is very data literate and then can help the teachers make meaning of it so that they can apply it and have it drive instruction in their. Classroom. That's huge.

Shoni Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I It's really important. I really do think. I think that sometimes people kind of get a glazed look on their face when we start talking about data, but then they light up once, they really start understanding what story the data is telling. And I think there's there's so much joy in that and they're like, "Oh, that's oh wow.", Like, "Oh, wow.

We missed that. We didn't know.". So, it just can tell, it can provide so much insight. Everything from, you know, the quantitative to the qualitative. But it can just provide teachers so much insight. And then when they light up once they see what story the data is telling, then all of a sudden their brains start working and they're like, oh, maybe we should do this and maybe we should do that, and it really enhances the program.

And I think without the data they just kind of get stuck in that rut and there's no, there's no path. They don't really know whether there's kind of. I don't know why my students aren't getting. Better. So it's so important.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. And that I think what you just said is so critical. It, if they can't see the growth, then there's that loss of, like excitement and, oh my gosh, we're moving the needle and we see the kids taking off in a different direction. I mean, that's what drives you every day.

Shoni Johnson: For sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: So as we, as you, think about your system, all the things that are happening in education,. The ways in which you and your staff are helping students move forward, what keeps you up at night? What are those things that weigh on you that you wake up or in the shower, you're thinking, "Oh, my word.".

Shoni Johnson: Great question. Well, okay. First of all, I don't sleep much, so I have a lot of time to think about things. So, are you ready? But seriously, I think more than anything, I just want to make sure that every student is challenged, even if they're struggling. And I mean, I know that.

I think what really keeps me up at night is making sure that, no matter what their background is or their learning environment, they have access to equitable, highquality education,. Right? So I always think about whether we're giving enough to support struggling students, but still challenging those who are ready for more, and also making sure that every student is challenged even if they're struggling, right? So, I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but I mean, I believe in both productive struggle and failure. I think both of those, there's value in both of those actions. And I really I can't stand it when I see students who are struggling and not getting adequate support.

But equally, it frustrates me when people assume students can't handle the rigor and just count them out without pinpointing the true cause of their. Struggle. So, it's a fine line and a delicate balance, but it's so very and, at the same time, I worry about teacher burnout. So, meaning, you know, as an administrator, I just want to make sure that we're giving educators the tools and the resources to become successful, to navigate all this. I also wonder, you know, I think it's important that we ask how can we track student progress in a way that actually drives meaningful improvements, without piling on more administrative work for teachers, right? So, but you know, at the end of the day, it all just comes down to making sure every student feels supported, engaged, and just truly prepared for life beyond high school or life beyond.

School. Sorry.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. So, tell me a little bit more about that, because I we do have people who are in the education sector that listen to the podcast. You mentioned being able to track and monitor student progress with not adding in so much burden to those who are holding that space, and what that means and looks like, and how do we make this more seamless? Are there ways in which you feel like you've done that within your system? And can you give an example of potentially what that looks like?

Shoni Johnson: Yeah, I mean, I think outsourcing some of that and partnering with you know technology, using technology and partnering with companies, you know that can help us make sense of the data, because it is such a massive amount of data to. Collect. So, using the technology and resources that are out there that can, you know, so that we're not data mining necessarily and spending all of our time doing so much data mining or being kind of haphazard with our data, but actually being more strategic about it. And partnering with somebody that can help us kind of do that piece of it, is really a first step in helping the teachers, you know, really dig in and see the story and see, are we challenging the students? Are the students growing? Are they struggling?

And if they're struggling, you know, what is it they're struggling? You know, why, what is causing their. Struggle? Is it, is it the curriculum, or is it something going on at home? Or is it a some other barrier that the that we need to also, you know, figure out. So, you know, I think providing them tools, training, resources to help with that data is just so important to really and again I'm a data person.

So, and from there we build on. Well, what resources? What are the next steps? You know, but that first step is we have to get to the bottom of what's really happening here and then we can build on resources from there. You know, do they need supplemental materials do. What else do we need?

Do we need help in the home? Do we need counseling? What do we need? What are the tools? What are the barriers?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I on that note from the things that you've shared that are keeping you up at night, making sure there's equitable access my paraphrase, kids not falling through the cracks, that everyone's feeling like they're challenged and space to. Fail. What are two ways you feel like that are really practical, that you can move forward in that space?

Shoni Johnson: Yeah. Well, I think that I think we need to strengthen targeted support for students and invest in, you know, building teacher capacity. So, those kind of are the two things that I would go to. I believe it starts with developing better systems to identify student needs early, so then we can provide the right interventions. Especially like with foundational skills the literacy and math but I mean using data and different types of data, multiple measures, right to track progress and adjust strategies is really key to making sure both the struggling students and the advanced learners are getting the right levels of support and challenge. Yeah.

But at the same time we have to prioritize ongoing professional development for teachers. So that means giving them all of the tools you know, like I said, meaning you know tools, time, training, resources to collaborate and analyze that student data and be able to implement best practices without piling more onto their. Plate. So I think when we support teachers well-being and their professional growth, then ultimately we're setting students up for their success.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. I love that. I love to hear just because the teacher burnout actually comes up a lot and you know it's been in the news often, especially post pandemic the weight that teachers are holding and how much more they're taking on and the impact that's having and people leaving the classroom and not finding people joining the profession. Are there ways that you guys have started to address that within your system where you're looking at how do we meet that need and provide that support to your. Teachers?

Shoni Johnson: Yeah, I mean, we've really I mean, especially post pandemic we really, you know, again, we really started focusing on leaning on the data and trying to dig in. We partnered with Parsec, which really has helped guide us through this process of figuring out and moving beyond just the, just moving beyond just the you know test scores, and looking at more, you know, quantitative and qualitative data. Like listening to student voices and hearing what they have to say and not, and I think, really being vulnerable too. So listening to the student voices and saying like maybe we do need to, maybe what we're doing isn't working, because I think as educators, we develop programs and then we want to stick with the program, or we just haven't given enough time or it's got to be. Perfect. It's can't be the program, it's got to be something else.

But when we are vulnerable and we hear we collect that, you know, that we hear that student voice and we're collecting that data and the students are saying it's, it's moving too fast or it's. You know, like we're getting all kinds of feedback about different programs and it's like it's really hard to hear that but we maybe made mistakes. We maybe our pacing was off or our choices were wrong. So, being vulnerable and being able to say, gosh, you know, we really appreciate you telling us that. We didn't really think about that, but you gave us ins to really to talk about and we have to have those hard conversations and teachers don't want to start. Over.

The first year of teaching, it's the hardest, right? And they're like, but I've been doing this for five years. And we're like, yeah, but for five years is not working and we got to make this. So it's having those hard conversations and having that growth mindset and being vulnerable. And it really, you know, it's really started with trying to listen to the students and trying to make sure that we're collecting the right and we're asking the right questions.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. I will say, Shoni, you're you, the work that you're doing in your system of combining that quantitative and qualitative data. I just, I think it's so important and I'm glad you keep highlighting that through the. Conversation. I, for myself, I don't feel like that really became apparent to me, the necessity of it, until I started working at the county office of education and got that deep training and improvement science. And part of the root cause analysis was doing empathy interviews and focus groups and making us think about how do we slow down our decision- making and engage with the students or with families so that we're really understanding the problem before we're putting a solution in place.

And I think that we often just look, stop at the quantitative data and then we miss this whole piece of the voice and then we put strategies in place that maybe weren't quite hitting the mark because we didn't just take the time to talk to the. Kids. You know what I mean?

Shoni Johnson: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And I think it's. I mean, it seems so on the nose, but it was just so eyeopening because I think a lot of our teachers are like, "Well, we're doing the same thing for all of the students, you know? I mean, you know, we're offering the same, you know, the same access to all the same resources, but when we really dug into really the student voice piece of it and listening to the students, then the teachers are like, I had no idea.

I had no idea that those students were going through what they were going through, or didn't have a single book or a single pen or pencil in the home, or that they just came here and they were refugees or you know, like all these stories that came up, and how can we better support them and how can we kind of build programs around them? Really, that personalized learning piece kind of started coming into. Play. So yeah.

Rachael Maves: So for our last question, which is always my favorite,: what question in education, are we not asking that we really should?

Shoni Johnson: Great question. So I'm going to say so much of education is focused on traditional academic benchmarks. But the real question I think that we should be asking is: are we truly preparing our students for the world they will enter, and not the one that we experienced. So, I mean, we're actually, you know, are we actually equipping students with critical thinking and adaptability, problem solving skills that they need to thrive in a world that's really changing faster than ever? I mean, are we, you know, also, are we teaching them how to navigate complex information? Are we teaching them how to work with people from diverse backgrounds?

Are we making sure they can apply what they've learned in real world situations? So, just as important, are we making sure all students have access to all of these opportunities, regardless of their circumstances or regardless of their educational setting. I mean, are we providing equitable opportunities for all students to develop those skills? I just worry that if we're not intentional about focusing on real world applications, we're really missing opportunities and, you know, in some cases we're closing doors for students before they even have a chance to walk through them.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a good one, and I appreciate that you're thinking about it. I think it's that's. That's one that I think a lot of people are starting to grapple with, especially after the.

Pandemic. This idea of how do we start to think outside of, like the traditional ways that we've been doing things, that we've been assessing students, that we've been thinking about education. And you're right, it's the world that we live in. I know every generation says that, but I think even more so this generation. It just does not look anything like what it was when we were in school, right? And technology is an amazing thing and can do so much for us, but we also have to get them connected with human beings, right?

Shoni Johnson: Yes. You know, and making sure that we just have that, you know, mutual respect for diverse backgrounds, you know, and are we really doing a good job with that? You know, I just that's. I that's, I hope that we are, but I think we need to continue to focus on that.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, perfect ending. Nice job, Shoni. Thank you for your time today. I just really appreciated our conversation.

Shoni Johnson: Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Rachael Maves: A friendly reminder that Parsec Education's early bird sale is live. Get 50% off tickets for the 2026 Measure What We Value Summit happening February 4th through 5th in Fresno,. California. Don't miss this limited time offer and the opportunity to experience our incredible MC Brandon Leak, season 15 winner of America's Got Talent. Secure your tickets now at.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.