Rachael Maves: Hi everyone. You are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I am Rachael Maves, your host. This podcast is part of the leadup to the upcoming measure what we value Summit, scheduled for February 5th through 6 in 2025 in Fresno, California. The summit emphasizes honoring and amplifying student voices, fostering inclusive classrooms and equipping Educators with tools for impactful change. You can find more information at parsecsummit.com. Today we are talking to Pepper Miller.

Pepper is a distinguished Market researcher, author and speaker with over 25 years of experience helping Fortune 500 companies. Nonprofits, understand and engage black American consumers. As the founder of the Hunter-Miller group, she has collaborated with organizations such as ARP, CNN and Proctor and Gamble to develop culturally relevant marketing strategies. She is the acclaimed author of three influential books on black consumer insights. What's black about it? Black still matters in marketing, and let me explain black again.

Pepper Miller has been a respected contributor to platforms such as Forbes, advertising age, the medium and Linkedin, where she shares her expertise on cultural insights and effective marketing strategies. She is also a founding blogger for advertising ages, big tent Multicultural blog and has been featured in media Outlets like Black Enterprise and MBA ma magazine. Pepper, thank you for joining me today.

Pepper Miller: It is such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Rachael Maves: I really appreciate it and I'm I'm so excited for this conversation because usually I live just in the education space and you're bringing like such a different story and lens as we jump into marketing and consumerism.

Pepper Miller: Yes, and that's my flip side. I'm excited because I'm typically in the marketing space with cars and healthc care and financial services and it's so nice to be focused on in this education space. I talk about it a little bit in my book well, a lot in my book about the importance of this, the oil, how education system is broken and what we need to do to fix it. So I am, you know, I'm really delighted and humbled, you know, in this world of dismantling DEI, for you guys to have a conference and to have me here talking about sharing black insights. It is so important. So thank you for that opportunity and thank you for this podcast.

A thank I mean really it's been. It's been crazy and humbling, oh, thank you.

Rachael Maves: Well, we're excited and we're going to start out talking about what we always do on the podcast and what we highlight in the Elevate at the Summit is really the story side. So I'd love for you just to share a little bit about your journey, how you got to the place, that you did, yes, what your story is.

Pepper Miller: Okay, thank you. So there were, you know, four pivotal points. I would think that led me here. First, I was born and raised in Chicago, but when I was seven we moved to the segregated South. My father was a trained classical pianist and he got offered an, a professorship, at a historically black college, Albany State College. It's Albany State University now.

So our family moved to the South and it was culture shock, to say the least. The good thing is, the black people live to, we live together. But what I saw as a little child, where these signs all over of whites only colored, not allowed, and what helped was the unity that we had in our community. But a defining moment was when the lieutenant governor was on the national news saying to his constituents, using the nword to reassure them that we he was not going to let black students in to a the State University. And that was a moment for me and it left this indelible mark on my heart and every time I tell that story I could still feel that pain. So that, but that pain was important.

The second thing that happened was a pivotal moment was working at Jay Walter Thompson, an advertising agency. At the time it was the second largest Ad Agency in Chicago. Leo Burnett was number one. And on my last job I worked in administration, love the job, office planning, working with Architects and interior designers and doing lots of research on cost-saving Alternatives. I was then, because of the research piece that I liked, I got accepted into the 4as program where we did a well, a broader. We had a responsibilities for coming up with a ad campaign for a particular product it was Li in coffee bags at the time and I got a chance to play around with research and then do participate in some focus groups at Jay Walter Thompson and I loved it.

I applied for the research training program. I did not get in and I subsequently left and started my own business. So that was the second thing. Third thing is starting my own business. I'm out there knocking on the doors wanting to do research and I was told we'll call you when we have something black. And I'm like you talking to me, I just couldn't get any just General market research.

So it was the mainstream, it was the black agencies, I'm sorry, like Burell and which is still in business, but the other agencies practor and Garder, emo communication, Chism, mangle, Vince colors they're all out of business. And then there was Soft Sheen, this big hair care company. It was bought by L'Oreal, but they provided me the opportunity to practice my craft and in doing so I kept hearing in focus groups, black people talk about their experience. Of course, and I could understand it, but it was them sharing their points of view about advertising messages that did that resonate with them. So fourth thing that I did was I'm going to go and speak at some of these Multicultural conferences. There were no black people speaking at these conferences, or very few, and if there was a speaker talking about Black America, it was the same thing all the time the numbers, the demographics and I was going crazy for wanting to know the why.

So I started speaking. I started sending out Market snap shots. My publisher, who's still my publisher today, said: you need to write a book. I'm like, get out of here with that. He finally kept pressuring me and then, hence, I wrote the first book in 2005, the second book in 2012 and then the Third book, let meain black, again last year, launched in 2023, and I have been a fiend for helping society and Brands understand the value of Black America as a people as well as a market segment. It's what drives me.

It keeps me awake at night. That's how I ended up here, oh my.

Rachael Maves: God and just such a valuable voice that you're bringing into that space it in a time when there that wasn't there at all, exactly and now, when we're being erased, you know our history is being erased.

Pepper Miller: [speaker uncertain] So I'm, you know, we still have to. We still have to, you know, keep fighting.

Rachael Maves: What is it that you love about research? I heard you say that a number of times. Like you just love research, you wanted to do the research.

Pepper Miller: Well, you know what I love? Qualitative research, and I miss the old days of qualitative research where we had conversations with people. It's kind, it's not like that. But I love hearing people's stories and to understand them. What I love about the research industry: we are taught to, you know, leave our biases at the door and I and, as a result of that, they have been more welcoming to me and my message. I think that's what I love about it.

Mostly, the qualitative side of is just learning about different people, their experiences and their culture and how that applies to me and how do I connect with them. It's all about connection.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. And what a through line, regardless of background, history, culture, to connect with the story.

Pepper Miller: Absolutely, yeah, I love it.

Rachael Maves: Well, tell us a little bit about your keynote. I know the title is unpacking the value of the Black American Experience. Let me explain black again. I can you share a little bit about what it's going to be highlight?

Pepper Miller: On sure, I think you know the goal is and I guess you explained that we want to help you know, use ex, share these black insights and demonstrate how they can transform education by better understanding Black America and the black experience. So that's the overall goal. So what I'm I think one of the key areas that I'm going to be focusing on are these seven blind spots, the business leader blind spots, which are also black insights. So I will be doing this presentation, but I'll also be doing a couple of workshops in the spirit of time. We don't have time to talk about all the blind spots, but I will cover three of them: the avoidance of. Sharing some marketing examples, but I'm going to align them with education and talk about why this is important with education, why cultural competency is important in education and how this pertains to standardized testing and cultural influence in the class room.

And so I will be aligning my insights in these blind spots with that, with the educational system, so that people can make a connection with that, and then I'll you know, at the end I'll talk about how to drive success by using black insights to bre reach a broader Target. It's really a growth strategy. What I say all the time is: when you get it right with black people, you get it right with mainstream. Because of our history, we've had to be resilient, we've had to be industrious. We've had to be Innovative and creative and in doing so and in practicing and living this lifestyle of being resourceful and Innovative and creative, these ideas are so applicable to other segments. It's about connecting to the humanity of people, using those insights to do that.

So we will do that in the presentation and in the work shops as well. In the workshops, we'll talk a little bit more about the deficit of empathy and being unapologetically black, how important authenticity is with black people and, again, how it is to other segments of the population as well. It's not punitive. There people might feel a little uncomfortable, but it is the raw truth. There's some things that are just the raw truth that we have to talk about, but it is so important to understanding the why behind black people's beliefs and behaviors.

Rachael Maves: Yeah well, I think you, what you just said really hits home with me, because I feel like this is that's a universal truth for everyone. Right, the understanding of the was, yes, is critical, and even if there's not an agreement which I'm not saying that there's not here, but even if there's not an agreement that being able to look at it outside of self and from a different lens it changes the way we interact, like absolutely, and you know those. Are.

Pepper Miller: I'm looking at the importance of the soft skills, I mean, in addition to cultural competency and representation and test materials and, you know, overcoming stereotypes. One of the things that it's really coming up is understanding, empathy and humanity and identity, and you know people, some businesses, want to get away from that, but that is good leadership and that's how you get at a better understanding and, again, connection.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. Can you thinking about our audience? We have school leaders. Practitioners, people from that education sector that are coming in. Can you give us just one tangible example of what that takeaway might look like for their context, without giving away too much I don't want?

Pepper Miller: Well, I mean there's several points. When I talked about cultural compet, competency and test design and representation, I think the overall opportunity when we think about the why is to bring empathy to the table, and it's the breaking of the stereotypes. I think empathy does that and so I think an opportunity is for the audience to think about that and what does that look like? So that means that how do we enhance our cultural competency for test design? Are. Using?

Are we using real life experiences from the black community? For example? There is. I don't know if this is an urban myth I've been trying to track this for years but I keep hearing about an example on a standardized test that didn't go well for black kids. And if, was the expression cut the lights off. It's something that we say: I don't care if you have a PhD or if you are working at a McDonald's or if you're a blue collar or workingclass.

We don't like blue collar if you're a workingclass person. We hear this expression across all segments, in all age groups, population. So the story keeps coming up about how there was a question on the standardized test for grammar school kids and in their mind, the response was to cut the lights off or turn the lights off. So cut the lights off was not provided as one of the responses and it was deemed as incorrect for the black kids. So that's one of the when we think about cultural competency and understanding language in context and how we need to bring those types of ideas for standardized tests and testing and assessment in general, having conversations and collaborative conversations with students and teachers. Those are some of the things that we can learn and we'll talk about that and hopefully those will be some of the takeaways that we have for the audience.

But the overarching takeaway is how do we break the stereotypes and how do we have more empathy and from there we can talk about cultural competency. Representation, collaboration. All of that ladders back up to breaking those stereotypes and having empathy.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. What are I mean when you think about joining us? What are you most looking forward to?

Pepper Miller: So it was kind of like what you opened with I am, I'm coming in early, I'm going to be there day one. I think I'm speaking on day two, but I'm coming in on day one. I can't wait to interact with some of the practitioners and some of the administrators. Again, my world has been marketing. And package goods, and one of the one of my desires is to move from not totally leaving, but moving more from corporate to community, particularly after this DEI the, and it's not about just getting work, it's about having a voice in the community a bit more. So I'm really God, I'm so grateful to be a part of this so that I can interact and hear these stories from these practitioners and these teachers.

So I'm going to be attending those sessions so that I can learn and I can grow my knowledge and use these ideas as an application for market research.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that and I love that. You know, like we've said before, this lens that you're bringing into our community in just a very different way. I think the more diverse perspectives that we have. Engaging with education and the conversation of education is just so vital to help us re like so's working and what's not working for our students, AB. So, because when you know there are things that aren't working and that we need to start to shift and think, and yeah, so having you there will be great. You did mention before I get to our last question, you did mention that in one of your books you talk a little bit about education.

Is there a? Do you see some intersection in what you were looking at within your book and what we're talking about today and then what we have coming up?

Pepper Miller: Well, it's, it's probably what you, what the reason is for this conference. One of the blind spots is the fact that we're not post-racial. No, Virginia, we're not postracial, and the reason why we're not postracial is because black, brown and poor people are still more likely to navigate broken systems, education, Housing. Finance, health care and the justice system and religion. I didn't get into religion from that aspect. So I talk about how the education system is broken and how it has impacted black people, and I think that's one of the reasons why we're, you know, we're having the conference and one of the one of the things that I learned too and my mother was a teacher, my ex-husband and my sister-in-laws they're still my sister-in-laws they were teachers and they were wonderful teachers.

But this whole notion of teacher blaming for the broken system was really important and intrigued me and I talked about that in the book and that's one of the one of the barriers years, I think, to successful education and I talk about that in my presentation. But I think what Parsec is doing is the reason. You know it's, it's a reason why we're we're focusing on the broken education system. So nothing terribly new there, but just in alignment with what your purpose is and what Park's purposes and goals are.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, there's such a piece. Education of. We can have all the data in the world, but if we're not getting to and asking and spending, slowing down and spending the time to ask the stories, ask the EXP, that's right. We keep putting changes into place that actually don't lead to improved outcomes for kids. So what does that mean? To bring in the that voice and story Into the conversation, into the dialogue.

So you, I mean you, hit it right on the head of what we're hoping to Foster and having you be able to amplify as well in the keynote that you're going to be bringing so an I'm looking forward to. So, as we wrap up, I'd love for to give you the final word for our listeners, any Sage advice, thoughts to ponder you would like to leave us with.

Pepper Miller: You know, as we, you know, navigate this divisive climate and the dismantling of DEI. I think, now more than ever, because this is: it makes me crazy how these companies have dismantled the diversity, Equity, inclusion and belonging, because now more than ever, we need to be able to communicate and connect with people who are different from us, and so I think one of the most important things is that we need to seek first to understand, and in doing so, we're not necessarily taught to talk about differences. It makes us uncomfortable, people say it's rude. But different does not mean deficient. Understanding differences provides an opportunity, and so I think, in seeking first to understand and understanding the similarities and the differences is going to be really important, and to not be afraid, I think, of things that are different, and to keep or continue to have these courageous conversations, what you're doing, oh my God, what you're doing is having and inviting people to have courageous conversations, and so we need to continue to do that. And also what you're doing, and Parsec is doing, is being an ally for the cause.

So just a few things you know to leave people with and I'll be talking about that as I close out my presentation as well different does not mean deficient, it's opportunity.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that, thank you, and thank you, Pepper, for your time today. I just really appreciate her. So to meet you in February, it'll be one.

Pepper Miller: Yeah, I can't, I can't wait. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm excited. I got to figure out how to do the workshops because I'm a high heel girl. So I got this keynote to do and then they said: you got these two workshops that are 90 minutes each. And I was like, well, that's not gonna work. So I gotta holy, totally rethink my little workshop outfit.

Rachael Maves: So we and that's the thing, I'm a high heel girl too, I understand.

Pepper Miller: Oh, my God, my feet aren't going to make it. They used to when I was younger. I could wear them all day, but. Anymore got thank you so much.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, thank you, Pepper. Parsec education is hosting the measure what we value Summit on February 5th through 6 in Fresno, California. Join us for impactful conversations on empathy, engagement, hard truths and more, alongside leaders like Shaka Booker, Rich sto, Jamila lcot, Pepper Miller and student speakers like Liliana Sanchez and timy aori. Tickets are limited, so make sure to secure your spot today. Get your tickets at parsecsummit.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.