Rachael Maves: Hello everyone, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are talking to Lindsay Tornatore. Lindsay is the Director of Systems Improvement and Student Success with the California County Superintendents, where she leads policy and advocacy to strengthen educational systems across California's 58 county offices. A former K-12 and higher education music educator, Lindsay has taught in Pennsylvania, New York City, New Jersey, and Iowa.

She previously directed the California Department of Education Student Achievement and Support Division, overseeing programs for Title I, Accountability and Support for Foster Youth and Students Experiencing Homelessness, and where Lindsay and I met and got to work together, Lindsay holds her doctorate from Teachers College, Columbia University, and a master's in education and educational leadership from Indiana University of Pennsylvania. Lindsay, thank you for joining me today.

Lindsay Tornatore: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's great to sit down with you.

Rachael Maves: So yeah, and to catch up. I feel like it's been way too long. So I want to start out with the question that I ask everyone. Why did you choose a career in education? What brought you into this field?

Lindsay Tornatore: That's right, it has been.

Lindsay Tornatore: So what brought me into education is that when I was in high school, I was heavily involved in music, I was in the band, and that was truly my identity. It's where I found my safe place, it's where I had acceptance and found high levels of achievement and success. And you just couldn't imagine a life without music in my life. And so when it was time to make the decision for a career path,

Rachael Maves: you

Rachael Maves: Thank

Lindsay Tornatore: I wanted to be in that space and create the space for students that I had benefited from.

Rachael Maves: that. So tell me a little bit about your trajectory because you were in Pennsylvania and then New York City and New Jersey and I mean those are all very different educational contexts. What was your experience and what was that like just being in different classrooms in different environments?

Lindsay Tornatore: Yes.

Lindsay Tornatore: Yes, so well, what it was also interesting because my trajectory took me to different states and different places because also the levels of which I was teaching and the types of courses. So starting off in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on the East Coast teaching music, elementary, instrumental and choral. And then during that time I was getting my master's degree and I was really interested in student motivation and why some students

Rachael Maves: Thank

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Lindsay Tornatore: were succeeding and achieving and staying in the music program while others a very similar skill ability were not as engaged and motivated. So did my master's degree in Pennsylvania. Through that work wanted to go deeper and so I decided to apply for the doctoral program at Teachers College. So that took me to New York City and so

Rachael Maves: Thank

Lindsay Tornatore: to New York City, did teach at a middle school in the New York City Department of Education for a time and then also had an opportunity to teach in New Jersey at a undergrad university to support pre-service music educators. And so it was, it's so interesting going from Pennsylvania to New York to New Jersey, the culture, the interests, the dynamics. It was very humbling experience for me too because going to New York City

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Lindsay Tornatore: I went in very naive and thinking, oh, I know how to play music. I did this for years in Pittsburgh. I was very successful. No, I needed to relearn and reteach myself and really familiarize myself with the community too.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Yeah, well especially that breadth teaching elementary and then middle school and then at the college level too. Do you have a group that you really enjoyed the most?

Lindsay Tornatore: everybody, every group has the things I love. I do have to say though, being at the undergrad level is just so exciting. Being with young people who have their whole career paths ahead of them, I think that was a really, really great energy.

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Peace.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Oh, that's sweet. I love that. So you've also had a lens being in the K-12 system, higher education, and then leading work at the state level. And now you're supporting county office work in the state of California. Just with all of those different perspectives, Lindsay, when you think about the education climate and culture context right now, what is it that really keeps you up at night or you find that's weighing on you?

Lindsay Tornatore: Yeah, you know, it comes back to student belonging and connectedness to their schools and thinking about my own experience too. I felt connected, safe, motivated to be in school because of the connection I had with my high school band director. That was my adult that cared for me, that I felt connected to at school and that I could go to in a school where I had graduated in class of 400 plus. And so I

Rachael Maves: in here.

Lindsay Tornatore: When we are thinking about where are our students, are they coming to school, where continues to be a huge priority around reducing chronic absenteeism. Chronic absenteeism rates have dropped, is good, but we're still not where we were pre-pandemic. And so that continues to be a priority of the county superintendents who I support, and then of course of the state.

And so one of the key themes that research and that anecdotally we're finding is that students need to feel connected to an adult or to their school itself.

Rachael Maves: That's right. Yeah, that's right. When you think about chronic absenteeism and the issues that we're facing there, what are one or two ways that you're either the county offices, your organization, what you're hearing from districts are looking at moving forward to address that barrier?

Lindsay Tornatore: Sure. Actually, a couple of themes. So obviously, the parent-family-community-engagement piece is the most critical. And I've heard so many interesting examples out here in California of people doing different things to meet families where they're at, to really encourage them, and to really understand what the challenges still continue to be to get kids to school. One of my favorite examples from one of our counties is they had a radio ad campaign.

where they were giving an incentive for parents to get gift cards for gas. They were tagging it as gas to go to class. So they were supporting that initiative and they had radio ads for it so that people in the community were aware. Another example is that a district out here near Sacramento County, they partnered with the Chick-fil-A. And so in the mornings,

There were certain mornings where parents and the breakfast sandwiches from Chick-fil-A were donated and any parent who dropped their child off on school on time by a certain time could get a free breakfast sandwich from Chick-fil-A. That was when it was a very popular incentive. And according to the district, it lasted. wasn't just on the breakfast sandwich days. It helped to become more of a routine. So I just.

Rachael Maves: I meant!

Rachael Maves: It did continue. It did continue.

Lindsay Tornatore: Yeah, so the parent and family engagement piece and then also our LEAs are doing a lot of interesting things with various funding sources to hire and to increase their capacity with counselors and outreach and making sure they that personal touch with students and families as well.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. Do you know, is it too soon or are they starting to see a positive impact from those initiatives that they're putting forward where there's a movement in the data?

Lindsay Tornatore: Yes, yes, absolutely. And I mean, I think we could look at it from a statewide perspective in California. In 2022, we had 66 % of our districts and county offices eligible for differentiated assistance support, primarily due to their chronic absenteeism rates. By 2023 and then into 2024, those have reduced significantly. we've kind of, we still have a lot of LEAs that are in need of support.

But chronic absenteeism seems to be improving.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, well, I love that there's this two pronged approach is what I'm hearing you say. One is really focusing on families and parents, building that understanding, but then also finding creative ways to incentivize.

And then the second one is that climate and culture piece where I kids want to come to school and creating that environment where they feel connected. We've had a few listener or guests on that have shared either similar focus areas or even with the students how important that type of lenses and the focus is, especially post pandemic.

and making sure that this that's on the school's radars. Anything else just as far as things that you guys are focusing on as county offices or things that are really standing out to you as you're looking at statewide patterns and trends that you find interesting or are on your radar?

Lindsay Tornatore: Absolutely. So academics is very much on our radar. we did each year when the dashboard comes out, we love to look at the statewide summaries. My members look at the countywide data and disaggregate with their LEAs. One thing that we did last year is we did an analysis of trends and statewide trends of student performance in academics from 2018 to 2024. And we also looked at other indicators and the interesting thing we found.

was that statewide, overall, we saw improvement with chronic absenteeism, graduation rates, suspension rates. It was definitely something really to celebrate. And we actually saw the needle move on the dashboard, which is pretty significant. Yeah, to change colors, we know that that takes a lot. And so we saw that from 2018 to 2024 statewide. However, we saw the reverse with ELA and math on the dashboard from 2018 to 2024. We saw

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Rachael Maves: That's huge.

Lindsay Tornatore: By 2024, more student groups moving into the red, which is the lowest performance category for ELA and math. And also the other student groups, most of them shifting downward as well. And so I think we've all known that the pandemic really shook up.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Lindsay Tornatore: not only the relationships and the connectedness and the motivation and everything in our system, but also when those relationships were disrupted too, I firmly believe that that also impacted the ability for high quality instruction, for student engagement, motivation, and so all of these things being interconnected. So we are really focused, hyper-focused on improving academic outcomes, building LEA capacity.

Rachael Maves: Love.

Lindsay Tornatore: One significant event that happened in California this past summer was that the selection of the state adopted math instructional materials occurred. And actually in a few weeks at the November State Board meeting, the board will approve the recommended list from the review panel. So we are going through a big shift and supporting LEAs and bring on new materials, new instruction.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Right.

Lindsay Tornatore: And so we're really very focused on supporting them through that.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I mean that's exciting and such a huge need because you're right. I mean when we look at data and pandemic recovery, there are so many gaps still that students are facing and we're seeing that in the data and in those end of year assessment results. Can you tell me a little bit more about how you guys are providing support as the math framework rolls out, these new curriculum are being adopted, and it's really shifting the way that we're thinking about math so that

we're venerating multiple pathways as opposed to calculus being that pinnacle math course now. What does that look like for you guys as county offices and supporting them LEAs in districts?

Lindsay Tornatore: That's right.

Lindsay Tornatore: of court. So well, and you know better than anyone. When you know one county office, you know one county office. And so each county office, our great former county superintendent of Solano County, Lisette Estrella Henderson used to say that all the time and her quote will live in infamy. But it's true.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Rachael Maves: This is so true. I mean, it really is. And for our listeners that aren't in California.

California serves a little over 6 million students, 4.2 million that are assessed in the normal end of year assessments. And with the vastness of the state have 58 county offices. And I think what sets the structure in California apart a little bit is that they are completely separate entities. They're not connected to the Department of Education. They have for the most part in most cases, their own elected

superintendent or director of schools that oversees the county office of education. So it's an interesting dynamic that California has and it makes sense that that comment is so true because you in those instances in that construct every area is going to be different. Yeah.

Lindsay Tornatore: It's true. It's true. Yeah, we need some swag items for that. Like, mugs, bumper stickers. Well, so within that, you know, in the local context, what did you do? Because county offices vary in size and capacity to, and obviously their LEAs vary as well in the needs. so the things we are doing statewide, another very important group in California is our

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I agree.

Rachael Maves: That's right.

Lindsay Tornatore: Curricular and Improvement Support Committee, otherwise known as CISC, of which Rachael is very familiar. And CISC has a math subcommittee and they are doing a lot of work to prepare guidance and support within the 58 county offices so that they can go out and support their LA's through the selection of which math

materials that make the most sense for their LEAs and then also supporting high quality implementation of those materials too.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah, I think that's critical. I mean, it's one thing to have a curriculum, but to get really clear around what does the success criteria of the implementation look like and how do you provide support? I think that's the piece that is very often overlooked. Yeah, yep, that's great. So as we wrap up with our final question, Lindsay, what question in education are we not asking that we should be?

Lindsay Tornatore: I think we are asking, we need to ask it more and more with more intentionality is, and as we're talking about supports for students and supports for schools generally, specifically, I think we need to be asking, and what are the supports that we have for the adults in the system to ensure they feel supported and also connected to their school, to their classroom, to their work and have what they need.

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Rachael Maves: you

Lindsay Tornatore: to succeed to provide and create those conditions so that students can can achieve.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I think we often forget that there are adults within the system too that went through all of the same things and are giving everything that they have to try to move these needles. it takes a toll. And we see that in the data too, right? Retention rates, teacher burnout, harder and harder to get people into the field. I think that's an important piece.

Well, Lindsay, I appreciated our time together. Thank you so much for carving out this space to have this conversation with me. It's always good to connect with you.

Lindsay Tornatore: Thanks for having me.

Rachael Maves: Just a reminder, the fall is a great time to check in on the emotional climate of staff, students, and families. Parsec Real is an AI-powered platform built for gathering input across your community.

Our platform's ability to engineer questions for all audience types, reading levels, and in multiple languages grants accessibility to students and families who previously may have been unable to add their voices to the conversation. To learn more on engaging your whole community through valuable feedback, check out parseceducation.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.