Rachael Maves: listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are talking to Gary Lilly. Gary is the executive director of the Tennessee Organization of Schools Superintendents, also known as TAS, leading statewide efforts to support district leaders and advocate for public education. Over his 32-year career, he has served in roles ranging from teacher, technology director, and principal.

to superintendent in two Tennessee districts, including 10 years in Bristol and five years in Collierville. Passionate about supporting students, growing leadership capacity, and ensuring every student has the opportunity to succeed, Gary works closely with superintendents, policymakers, and education partners across the state. Outside of work, Gary enjoys life with his wife, two grown children, and two granddaughters. Gary, thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Gary Lilly: Well, thank you for having me, Rachael. I appreciate it.

Rachael Maves: Well, I'm super excited to have you on the podcast and connect with you about some of the great work that Tennessee is leading. But before we jump into that, I would love to hear just a little bit more about your story and your journey. Why did you choose a career in education?

Dr. Gary Lilly: Sure. So I held from kind of humble beginnings. My parents, neither of them went to college, but they definitely appreciated that education was the path to a better life. And so they encouraged me and my sister. My sister is also a teacher, but encouraged and expected us to do our best. And certainly they instilled a strong work ethic. So because there was that expectation that we do well in school,

they supported us. Generally, I did okay. And, you know, I guess we kind of like what we do well in. So I always liked learning and being at school. So it wasn't really a stretch that I might become a teacher. Interestingly, I was also crazy about computers, or at least the notion of computers. When I was a kid, like, we couldn't afford a Commodore 64, but I did have a

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Gary Lilly: A Texas Instruments 994A, which nobody listening to this podcast is probably going to know what it is. But using that, I taught myself to program basic and had this little tape recorder that you made a racket with when to save the programs and what have you. So when I went to college, I went to a small regional college. And at the time you had to go in and actually sit down and talk with the registrar.

Rachael Maves: you

Dr. Gary Lilly: And so he said, he said, well, what are you hoping to be? And I said, well, I think either a computer programmer or a teacher. And he looked up and said, those are two pretty different things. And so he created an enrollment card for both. said, think about it and bring the one back that you want to do. So I gave it some thought. I thought, you know, I did teach myself programming, so I think I could do that. But I know you have to be certified to teach. So I decided to go with teacher and

Rachael Maves: Mmm.

Dr. Gary Lilly: Rachael, you're gonna laugh, but my dream job, I thought the job I would love to have more than any other is to be a teacher in a computer lab. And so that's what I was hoping to do. But of course, like many graduates fresh out of college, a computer lab was not in the cards and I was happy to take the first job I could get. And that was in a chapter one reading class and I absolutely loved it. It was at the middle school level. And so I loved teaching.

I continue to have a keen interest in technology, especially like how can we leverage technology to help students learn? So eventually I went back and got my masters. I worked in the district as a technology integration specialist for a while, eventually technology coordinator, which would be a CTO today. And then I just wondered how can I really affect change for students on even a larger scale? And so I got my doctorate.

I worked as a principal transportation attendant supervisor and eventually a superintendent for 15 years across two districts. And for the past year and a half, I have been the executive director of the Tennessee Organization of School Superintendents. So I guess all that is to say I just have trouble holding down a job.

Rachael Maves: and funny that put that little narrative and spin on it. It's pretty impressive, Gary, the work that you've done. And I didn't know that about you, you're, the thing that you loved the most was the technology piece of it. How fun. Yeah, that's exciting.

Dr. Gary Lilly: You

Rachael Maves: So let me I do have a question for you when you think about and you you shared that you came from humble beginnings but that that sense of purpose and expectation was drilled in with you by your parents if Your school experience must have been what pretty positive to continue to foster that and to really feel like I want to go into education I'd love to hear just a little bit more about that was it in Tennessee or was it someplace

else, small world community, tell me about that. Yeah.

Dr. Gary Lilly: Yeah, it was fairly rural. I grew up in Southwest Virginia, but it was a very good experience. I went straight from elementary to high school, and then I continued to be in Southwest Virginia when I went to college for undergrad, which was at Emory & Henry College, Lowell Regional College. But one of the things that impressed upon me at an early age was how much teachers care.

And certainly there's so many teachers that just made a difference in my life. And so I always appreciated that because of their help, the support of my parents. I did pretty well in school and so it was something that I appreciate it and it's really changed my life for the better.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

I love that. mean, it truly is a success story on both sides when you see the parents holding that space and then the school holding that space and working in tandem. Like the amazing things that can come out of it. And that's your story, which I love. Yeah. So now in this role in TAS and the executive director where you're supporting all of the districts across Tennessee and really being that advocate and that voice and support, what keeps you up

Dr. Gary Lilly: Absolutely, yes.

Rachael Maves: at night? What are the things that really weigh on you as you think about our state and work that you're leading?

Dr. Gary Lilly: So, well, you I could say that I sleep like a baby. I wake up every two hours and cry. But there are several things I worry about. You sometimes it seems like that public education is just in a perfect storm. Since the pandemic, it seems just increasingly hard to attract and retain teachers. I know.

Rachael Maves: That's the perfect picture.

Dr. Gary Lilly: our superintendents and districts are struggling there. You also have like the uncertainty with federal funding. Of course, the Esser Cliff with the pandemic money, the Esser Cliff is already here. know, that money is gone. So districts were able to do so many great things with some of those funds and to not have those as a real hit. Plus, you know, right now, as we record this, we're on the

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that's right.

Dr. Gary Lilly: cusp of possibly a government shutdown. So there seems to be like there may be a significant reduction of federal funding coming. I know there's discussions of a block grant to states which would theoretically provide more flexibility and flexibility is great, but if there are overall less funds then the flexibility is not really as helpful. And then here in Tennessee last year a universal voucher program was passed.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Gary Lilly: And there are some guardrails to limit the negative impact to public schools, but it still has the potential to be painful if districts lose many students over time. to answer your question, I guess what keeps me up at night is just wondering how do we not only maintain strong public schools in today's environment, but also encourage and support innovation so that parents and community have access to the educational experience that they want within the district.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, well, and I think you said it so well, because what does that look like when we're also being asked to do more with less in the midst of that? And how do you pull innovation into that space?

Dr. Gary Lilly: Absolutely. you know, right along with that, though, we also, back to the teacher shortage, I wonder, you know, how are we, how are we, what do we need to do to make teaching compelling enough to really attract the best and brightest to the jobs and to keep them there? It's a hard job, but we need great people.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. So when you think about those issues, I one, heard you say just the impact of funding at the federal and then potentially at the state level. And then also, you know, the rising popularity of vouchers, school choice, and in the midst of all of that, that expectation that we need to be able to do more with less. What are two ways that you see us moving forward in those spaces?

Dr. Gary Lilly: Well, that's a great question. think there are things that we can do as far as making sure that we are meeting the needs of our communities and our families. One thing I learned along the way is that sometimes if you want to know something, all you have to do is ask. And of course, the parsec reels are perfect for this. But I really think we need to be doing exit interviews with the families who are seeking vouchers to say, what are you not getting in the district and what do

hope to find through a private education. And there are some things that we can do and some things that we can't do. If it's important, and I totally respect parents who they value that the Bible be read every day in school. Well, obviously public education can't do that because of the Establishment Clause. And I totally respect families that that's what they want. But.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Gary Lilly: If it's something like, well, I felt like my child is not being challenged enough or really hoping for a different modality of learning, those are some things that we can make changes in public education. I think we need to look for ways to to innovate, but also ask most of our families will probably still be in public schools. And so we need to ask them, what do you want for your children? You know, there's a lot of talk right now about the portrait of a graduate and what do you want?

you know for children once they once they go through the k-12 system. So I think it's important that we as public school systems do our best to meet the needs and expectations of our parents. So we've got to look for those insights, we've got to analyze them and take action on them and to your point about the budget, unfortunately it requires sometimes that we just prioritize when

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Dr. Gary Lilly: When I was a superintendent of the district, I always dreaded budget season because my motto was always, what good things are we not going to be able to do? People never bring you an idea and say, this is gonna be really bad for kids, will you fund it? Everybody's got great, great ideas, but you've really gotta look carefully as far as where are you getting the best return on your investment? And so that's...

Rachael Maves: That's right. Yep. Yep.

Rachael Maves: Yep, that's right.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Dr. Gary Lilly: That's important. Plus, I do think that we need to continually ask folks to advocate on behalf of their school system and public education for funding and support. And that's a pretty big ask. know, parents and teachers and administrators, have their own jobs and their own lives, and it's easy to kind of leave it to the public officials. But the problem is, is that the public officials, they have to hear from their constituents.

And so at the local level, it's important that the governing bodies understand that the success of the community and the success of the school system are intertwined. And so they have to support those folks. And at the state level, parents need to call up their legislators and say, you know what, we know money is really tight, but you've got to find the funds to support mental health and intervention programming and staffing and all those things we need to really be successful.

Rachael Maves: That's right. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: I love that one of the things that we're talking about quite a bit at Parsec.

is this idea of return on investment and how do we leverage the quantitative and qualitative data to help people understand that? And I love your thoughts on this, Gary. I see this as something that is gonna increase in gain and momentum in the education sector as funds become more scarce, as people start to tighten their belts a little bit, as there are opportunities for more choice to not do it almost seems like it won't be an option. So I'd love your thoughts.

on that, how that conversation, you're seeing it start to unfold, if you're seeing that places.

Dr. Gary Lilly: Yeah, absolutely. I think those are great points. Sometimes it's the hardest to collect the qualitative information with quantitative. Through all the accountability, there's a ton of quantitative information. Now, making the best decisions with that is sometimes a challenge, but the qualitative, that's something that you all have really cornered the market on because your platform allows people to...

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: This is great.

Dr. Gary Lilly: saying what's on their hearts and minds and in whatever form that they find beneficial, whether it's typing, which I'm old school, that would be me, or audio or video, and that is so helpful, but it's also so important.

Rachael Maves: Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: You

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, this is our last question for our time together, Gary. What question and education are we not asking that we really should be?

Dr. Gary Lilly: So let me preface this one by saying take just a moment, you and the listeners, take a moment and think about your own experience. Was there a teacher who changed the trajectory of your life? I won't ask you to tell me who, but probably multiple teachers. Most of us can. And so we really need, we want those life changers. We need the best, the brightest, the biggest hearted.

teaching our students so I'm gonna I'm gonna reframe the question a little bit and and instead of saying instead of the question in education I propose a question to those who have thought about going into into education but did not and that question is simply why so so the question is how do we make teaching a job that people really want to keep for 30 years what would the workload look like the pay the respect the professional growth

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Okay.

Rachael Maves: Mmm. Mmm.

Rachael Maves: you

Dr. Gary Lilly: so that educators really feel valued and supported and respected so that they can really thrive for decades.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that. I do have to say before we wrap up that as soon as you said that the most impactful teacher for me, it was my high school computer science teacher. Like, yes, yeah. And at that point, it was more typing and learning how to type and having the glasses where we didn't see. But yeah, he really made a big difference in my life. Yeah. So kudos to you computer nerds.

Dr. Gary Lilly: There you go, nice, awesome! Yeah.

Dr. Gary Lilly: That's cool.

Yeah, that's right.

Rachael Maves: Well, thank you for your time today, Gary. I just really appreciate it and loved our conversation.

Dr. Gary Lilly: Hey, thank you, Rachael. I enjoyed it as well.

Rachael Maves: A friendly reminder that PARSEC Education's updated early bird sale for PARSEC partners is live until September 30th. Partner tickets are only $1.99 for the 2026 Measure What We Value Summit happening February 4th in Fresno, California. PARSEC echoes Gary's desire to see school leadership supported, so this fall we have one very special offer to our podcast listeners. Buy three or more tickets and we will lower the price to only $100 each. Bring your entire leadership team to explore how to align your

school's budget with strategic initiatives that create the greatest opportunities for student success. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Secure your tickets now at par6summit.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.