Rachael: Hello everyone, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are speaking with Dr. Chris Hampton. He's the Superintendent of Kingsport City Schools, officially appointed in March 2023 after serving as interim superintendent. With over 27 years in KCS, he held roles ranging from special education teacher to longtime principal at Dobyns-Bennett High School. Dr. Hampton is a former Tennessee Principal of the Year, and has received multiple state and university honors for his leadership in education. He holds three degrees from East Tennessee State University, including a doctorate in educational policy and leadership analysis. Dr. Hampton, thank you for joining me today.

Chris: Thank you for the invitation. Very happy to be here.

Rachael: So I'm really excited to get to know you better and to hear a little bit more about the work that you've been doing and the work that you're leading at your district. But before we jump in, I always start with kind of the human side of things of why did you choose an education or a career in education to begin with?

Chris: It just, it really chose me, Rachael. Education both changed and saved my life in so many ways. I grew up in just the depths of poverty to a single parent, single teen mom. And I was all the statistics. I was all the subgroups. And education and teachers specifically reached down and... elevated me through all of my troubles and all of my challenges, through the good, bad and the ugly. it became, school became a home for me. It was the place where I felt safest. It was the place where I was most recognized. It was the place where I was most loved on some days. And so it was a natural place to stay. So in high school,

My school counselor was working with me. What do you enjoy? What do want to do? You know, we went, we talked about police officer. We talked about lawyer. We talked about a lot of different things. And I kept coming back to teaching. I kept coming back to education and, and there it was. I decided in 11th grade, I wanted to be a special education teacher and I wanted to give back in my hometown. Interestingly, I never worked in my hometown, but, but, that's where that drive and passion came about. And so I pursued that avenue. And in the midst of the degree preparation, I found a passion for counseling and supporting students differently and students outside of the realm of the special education umbrella. And so I have a master's degree in counseling and put both of those to work. I've worked as a school counselor. I've worked as a special education teacher and

Regardless of my roles in school, it has never ceased to feel like home. is my authentic place. It's where I feel most comfortable. It's the part of being a superintendent. Those are the most enjoyable days. Today's the day that I was able to spend most of the day in school. Today was our first day of school back in this school system. And so I spent most of my day in schools and that was great. The part about the job that that's most challenging is I don't get to spend that time every day or nearly as regularly as I would like. But I feel like we're doing the work to advance opportunities for students here at the district level. so I know that it's resonating and it's making a difference at the school level.

Rachael: Yeah, I okay I have so many questions. The first one that I wonder about and that's a powerful story Chris of like education being that safe place for you and that place where you were really seen and heard and championed. Do you have like one or two core memories of just those experiences with teachers or in your school experience that highlights or elevates what that that story looked like for you?

Chris: I could give you so many and I'll give you a couple. One starting even in kindergarten. This is a bit comedic. It's, but it speaks to preparedness when students come to school. I happen to be in high school getting a copy of my transcript. This is a bit of an aside. And remember seeing it back, I'm over the age where where transcripts were handwritten, were recorded over time. So.

Rachael: Yes, I remember. Yes.

Chris: So when I was filling out a college application, the counselor just said, you go over to the office and tell them that you need a copy of your transcript. And it had each of the elementary and middle school years and the number of days present and the number of days absent. And I'll never forget that I missed 42 days of school in kindergarten. And so what a disadvantage that would put any child. so, I don't recall that. I mean, I can't recall what that was like to miss that many days of school. If you think about that over the course of a 36 week semester, more than a day per week. But I remember specifically early in my kindergarten days, and again, I mentioned I grew up in a single parent home and very significant poverty. just the absence of cultural integration, just the social norms, the social mores that guide our society that I came to school not knowing. That kids today come to school not knowing. But I remember specifically in my kindergarten, when we went to the restroom outside of a classroom break, you went to a time, typically a male and a female. And I remember going into the boys restroom and coming out and the young lady who went into the girls restroom had not come out yet. And so I thought it would be very appropriate to go in and get her. so I went in, went in, Mandy,

You're missing your buddy. And Mandy knew better. She knew that Chris should not have been in the restroom. And so we walked back to the classroom together. And of course, she shared with the teacher what I had done. And in that moment of redirection and correction, the teacher acknowledged that it wasn't for ill will. It was very inappropriate, but not for ill will. And took that opportunity to teach me that at school, boys and girls don't go in the same restroom. that and that that's a private space. No one had taught me that. I didn't come to school knowing that that was an inappropriate move or inappropriate action. And so that teacher, think, you know, in a moment that could have been frustration in a moment that you could go to the principal's office could could send you home, could put you in time out all the things. And I don't remember what if there was a consequence. But I do recall her explaining to me and teaching, making that a teachable moment and And that was powerful. And I remember in eighth grade, my family had a tragic house fire, lost everything. And so those teachers were so supportive. They provided so many things, but at the time I was a basketball player, and to a 13-year-old, basketball shoes are a pretty big deal. And so I don't know which teacher, but it was someone at the school. replace the basketball shoes. Really the school replaced the whole wardrobe for my entire family. But the shoes, that's what I remember most. you know, there's teachers that year, which is the, you know, norm, at least here where I live. Most of the school systems do an eighth grade trip. It's an overnight trip. At that point in my life, I had never been on an overnight trip. And there was no hope of going on an overnight trip. Financially, it's just my family couldn't make that happen. And I remember to this day, it wasn't. By today's standards, it wasn't very expensive. was $65 plus whatever you had to have for your meals. But that was, it might as well been $650,000. My family didn't have it. And I remember that one of my teachers asked, if this were provided, would your parents let you go? And I think so, but you should probably ask them because if I ask them, it's gonna be no. And so the teacher took it upon herself to call home and to make that arrangement. And not only did I have the trip covered, but also the meal money that was necessary. you know, just the things to include me in ways that teachers have always done that and they continue to do it today. But those are examples of, I mean, I don't know where Chris Hampton will be today. If it weren't for teachers, if it weren't for education. to take me out of that circumstance, to put me in a position of changing the trajectory of not only my life, but the next generations of what it means to have my name. That is something that so many don't think about is that in my community, my name 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, meant something that wasn't very positive. And...

Rachael: Yeah, yeah. it's so true. Yeah.

Chris: to have the opportunity to rewrite the definition of one's name and what it means to be that name. Education opened the door for me to be able to do that. And I will be forever indebted to this world. it's my mission field. It is what I think about when I go to bed. It's what I think about when I get up. And to a degree, it's dysfunctional, but dysfunctional in a way that works for me.

Rachael: Yeah, yeah, well that.

That's such a powerful story, Chris. And I think that you hit on something that you're right. I don't think that we think about is when there is a disruption and those kinds of things with with kids like your socioeconomic status, your education levels, being able to move on and out that has a ripple effect then for generations. It's not just the one. It's the generations that then come after that. And it's I mean, it's a powerful thing. There's very few fields that have that same

effect that we get to serve an education that does. Yeah. I'd love to hear a little bit transitioning to that next question like all the lens and everything that you're bringing and as you think about your district and the leadership work that you're doing there. What keeps you up at night right now? What are those things that a couple of things that really weigh on you?

Chris: Maybe that which is weighing on me most right now is all that we expect of our educators. And in order to do the things that I just talked about, the things that I just described, in order to be those people for children with the challenges that so many are faced with today.

in order to be excellent, in order to provide excellence, in order to be a model of what it means to be excellent, in order to give hope and confidence to young people who may not have it, it's a lift. It is a lift. you know, salary is just an element of it, know, benefits, that's just an element of it. How do we, and none of us, I mean, you probably hear this often, all educators hear it often is, You know, none of us go into this field with the expectation of wealth, with the expectation of, you know, living a life of luxury as perhaps what we might see through the lens of media. But, you know, there's an expectation of quality of life. And it's so very difficult with the time constraints that we have during the school day and the mandates that

that those above us put forth, you know, to teach, to have all the necessary meetings that one would have during the school day, whether it be an IEP meeting, an intervention meeting, an MTSS meeting, parent conferences, team collaboration, PLC, all the things, and then to plan for high quality instruction, to plan for differentiated instruction, to take individual needs of students into account, to...

to disaggregate data, to plan appropriately, to have the right small groups, to do all of the, it's impossible to do that in a planning period. Whatever that planning period might be, there's not a planning period anywhere long enough to do all the things in addition to the stress that comes with education. Now I don't get complaints about that. think teachers who chose this field or who were chosen by this field are committed to it. But I worry greatly about...

supporting the mental health of teachers, the physical health of teachers. you know, I've never experienced, I don't think I've ever experienced what it means to be burnt out as a professional. But I suspect the high expectations of my districts, of my district, could create that for teachers if I'm not mindful of what I'm expecting and, you know, how I'm compensating not only in salary, but in, you know, just you know, resources that allow them to best do their jobs. And that is something I work significantly about, especially as, you know, we experience a teacher shortage in certain areas. You special education is an area of shortage for us. Math and science to a degree, maybe more so at the high school level. It's not significant yet, but I worry about that. You know, those are the things, you know, so with what we expect on top of the shortage, how are we ensuring that we're taking care of them and having healthy, competent, skilled professionals in the lives of our students? That is certainly a stressor for me right now.

Rachael: I'm wondering in the midst of all that of what you're saying because I 100 % agree and I hear this often. I'm just curious about your how it's impacting your district. Are you also seeing like the retention rates that are dropping a little bit where teachers are leaving after three usually it's like the three-year mark where we see the most teachers that that move on. Is that also impacting your district?

Chris: No, not right now. We have bounced back. had, we're a district of approximately 700 teachers. So, not very large, not large by most standards. Regionally where we are, we're one of the larger systems, but you know, on the grand scheme of things, we're not. You know, around the pandemic, 2019, 20, 21, we were replacing about 90 to 100 teachers per year. Now this year we replaced 48. So it feels like we have recovered. But so much of that has had, you we focus more on culture, heavily on culture, collaboration. Those are key tenants of our school system, professional learning. So what we hope is that in addition to salary, that we will be more competitive than surrounding districts as it relates to those things that add quality and equity to the career of a teacher. So high quality professional learning, for example, access to high quality technology, providing for a classroom, equipping a classroom and not leaving that up to a teacher's individual home budget. Those are things that we have differentiated pay to really support those harder to fill positions. So we've used those things to try to support teacher retention. And I feel like we've done that. We are a higher paying district in in our community, we're not the highest paying district. those things together have really allowed our retention rates to improve. In fact, it's one of my performance goals as a superintendent, retention of the level three, four and five teachers. And so we're on a scale of zero to five or one to five. And so last year, our retention rate for those students was 90, for those teachers was 97%. So we've implemented things, but it's the thing, we demonstrate great love for teachers and great respect for teachers. those things matter, but just like salary is not the only thing that matters, respect is also not the only thing that matters. Teachers deserve a little bit wage and they deserve when they go home to be able to invest that time with their families or whatever is most important to them beyond work. And it's very hard to be...

Rachael: Yeah, it sounds like it. Yeah.

Chris: an excellent outstanding educator in the amount of time we have in the school day. It does require outside work. And as much as we've tried to mitigate that, we have not found a way to do that yet.

Yeah, I think that's a problem that everyone's looking at and understands that there's an awareness of and unfortunately probably not enough brain power of trying to figure out what we do about it. I would love to hear, I mean you've given a lot of different ideas Chris and I do just want to pause and say kudos to you. I mean you're the superintendent, you're setting the tone in the culture for your entire district and what those teachers are experiencing and to be able to see your data of what

what teacher retention was like and then make that massive of a shift in a handful of years. mean that speaks a lot to your leadership and the importance of culture that you've created within your district. That was very important to me as a principal. I spent 12 years as principal of the high school and actually I worked in that high school for 25 years. 12 as the principal. again, that work family, they're the work environment for those people who really as a professional I've grown up with. It was very important to me that they have a supportive environment when I was in a position to make that happen. because it wasn't always the case. It wasn't always the case. And so that was important to me. And we're a district of 12 schools. And when we would come together in principal meetings or in school system collaboratives, and I would hear that the culture at other schools wasn't quite what the culture of my school was, I thought, well, how unfortunate is that? How hard would it be to... to do some of those things that we're doing. And so when I became the superintendent, initially as the interim, that's all I would commit to being. I had no desire of being superintendent. My time in the district offered some stability and that's what the district was going for, just a trusted face and name until someone was hired. Because I was very clear that it was not something I was interested in.

Rachael: It is not you! So funny how that works.

Chris: And then what you realize in a very short period of time is all the low hanging fruit, all of the things that maybe you thought were happening, that at my school, those things were happening. You know, a focus on data, focus on subgroups, focus on culture, know, investment and professional learning, you know, it wasn't consistent across the district. And those were big rocks that made a difference in my school. I thought, you know, how, you know, If it's working in one school, it should work in all schools. And so it was, and it did, and it has. And so, then I said, well, you I can make, because we're a single high school district, I can really make this place I love more than anything better if the quality of student coming to the teachers at the high school is stronger. If a stronger student is coming to the high school, the end product can be strong. which is the same for middle and so forth and so on without blaming, how can we affect the infrastructure? And so that was enough motivation to say, you know what, for the time that I have left in public education, whatever that ends up being, how do I make the whole system better in a way to impact the most, the largest number?

Rachael: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that some of the best superintendents understand that or they surround themselves with a team that does, you know, that piece around systems work.

Chris: Well, and that's key because I don't want to give any indication that individually, the progress we've made as a result of singularly of my singular elevation to this role. That's not it at all. There is a we have a great team here, many of whom have who have been invested in the school system for a very long time, some of whom were students in this school system. That was not the case for me. And it's a very proud community. And it's place we want to keep great, make great and keep great. so, our arrows are pointing in the same direction and we're making great progress.

Rachael: Yeah, that's Yeah, that's right. Well, you've given a lot of different ideas and solutions, but I do want to give you a chance when you think about are there one or two other ways that you could move that work forward or make sure that you're addressing that support for teachers that you would want to highlight that maybe you didn't get a chance to.

Chris: Some financial struggles have prevented my desire to create a more equitably budgeted district as opposed to equally budgeted district. And for example, we have mentioned 12 schools, eight elementary schools. Four of those elementary schools are high poverty title schools and four are not. But we fund all eight the same way. So the ratios for the number of students per classroom, the number of teachers per school, all of those are based on really antiquated processes from decades gone by. Because once upon a time, we didn't have title schools in this community. This was a very white collar community once upon a time. And so as it has evolved, as the community has evolved and the needs have evolved, our processes and structures have not consistently made that move as well. you know, whereas, you know, our higher poverty schools, my desire would be 15 to 17 students per class, not 23 to 25. That, you know, we would have an instructional assistant at every classroom in two and early grades, just so we could do more effective small group instruction and individual intervention, you know, have a more robust tier one, tier two, tier three intervention system. And that doesn't really exist, though the leadership in the districts respects and understands, don't, saying I don't either, want to create a Robin Hood scenario where we take from those schools that are successful to move that, you know, I don't want to compromise what any of our schools are receiving. I simply want to make right that which is not right for those who need more support. And, you know, I'm reading a book right now by Ken Williams called Ruthless Equity.

Rachael: That's right. Yes, bolstered somehow. Yes. Yep.

Chris: And it really is all about that. How do we disrupt the status quo and engage and create and ensure high quality learning for all students? And part of the premise of that book really is built on the fact that, you know, we have to quit treating unequal things equally. We just we have to. And perhaps education is one of the last institutions where that happens consistently. And and so I'm probably serving to be a bit of a disruptor. in the status quo of this school system. But it's because I know that in this school or that school, there's something different needed. And let me say, the highest, we just received our growth scores Friday, so we're a bit excited. have 12 schools. 10 of the 12 schools have the highest growth scores in the state. 10 of the 12 have level fives. But in 2022, we had 4 of the 12. And in 2023, we had 5 In 2024, we had 7 And now 2025, we have 9 And we have 5 title schools. 4 of the 5 title schools are level five schools. And so what we're demonstrating is that all kids can learn. All kids can do hard things. We just have to create the environment and the support necessary to fill in the gaps.

Rachael: Yes, that's right. Yep.

Chris: build hope and confidence and expect them to be great so that they will be great. so that little bit, and if you know me personally, I'm not disruptive at all. I'm the kind of nicest guy you'll ever meet, but I have to be, sometimes I'm boorish in meetings because, know, well, that's not how we do things. that's part of the problem. That's why we have four level five schools out of 12. You know, that's so happy.

Rachael: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: let's make a shift, let's try something different and see what works and see if it works, because it might not work. If it doesn't work, we'll go back. It's okay to fail forward. Let's just don't fail static or fail backwards. so, you know, some people are getting on board and we have a guiding coalition. We have a core group who are going to be

Rachael: Yes, that's Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Chris: ruthless in our endeavor, much like the book Ruthless Equity, we're going to be ruthless in our fight and endeavor to create high quality learning experiences for all kids. And we know it will change our community. We're the only school system in this community. If it's going to improve, it has to start and end with us. And so I feel very strong, very passionate about that.

Yeah, and good for you. And you have the evidence of results, Chris. I mean, it's not just talking the talk. You guys are walking the walk alongside of it. Well, as we wrap up our time together, I'm excited to see what you're going to say about this question. What question in education are we not asking that we should be? I've thought about that a lot and in pockets this question's being asked, but why are we still allowing zip code to determine how?

Why are kids who grew up like me still having the experiences in school? Why do we still have a learning gap between those from high poverty families versus those from middle and upper income? Why do we still have such a high incidence of students? And I know the answers to many of these. Why are so many of our students with special ed?

also high poverty, are they really learning disabled or are they socially disabled? Or are they not appropriately engaged? Or is it that they missed 42 days in kindergarten and just didn't get all the letter sounds? so poverty is the key. If you look at all subgroups, you look at all racial groups, at least it's certainly true in Tennessee and in the school system, my school system. If you look at African American, if you look at Hispanic, if you look at, you know, all the subgroups, poverty, if you, if you parse out poverty, you, we have proficient kids and all those subgroups, if they're middle income or upper income, the, the, the common commonality between all of those commonality with the special ed commonality with limited English speaking background students, the commonality is poverty, not not race, not ethnicity, it's poverty. Now, I won't say there's not some social cultural challenges or issues as well, but why are we allowing that to continue to be the issue? How? Because there are remedies to that. There are ways to support that. it is, you know, it's why I can say, and I can say that confidently because, you know, four of our five title schools are now at the highest growth level in the state of Tennessee. You know, that's how I can say it. You know, we had 20 % at some grade levels and some subject levels at our highest poverty school. And this is a school that about 85 % poverty rate. We saw a 20 percentage point increase year over year in the same subject matter. And it was just addressing intervention. was, you you didn't have to have grade level or tier two intervention. We created a reteaching component.

I mean, to me, that was common sense, but it just wasn't consistently integrated across our elementary schools. And once we started purposeful reteaching, students got it because they might not have gotten it the first time because they weren't in school that they weren't there.

Rachael: Yeah, sometimes it just, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Or, I mean, if maybe they're like me, it takes me a little bit.

Chris: Right. And so once we do reteaching, once we got reteaching and then we then it helps us better understand, OK, this is reteaching, then all these kids didn't need to be in a tier one intervention being pulled from other classes. They just needed small group teaching and they're back in their regular classes being supported fully by their gen ed teacher. And then that allowed those, you know, instead of, you know, 18 students in tier one, we have.

Rachael: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: six students in tier one that we're doing in small groups of three and three in order to really close those skill gaps. And so there's some strategy to it, but some strategy and some some willingness to make a difference. And it can be. It's not magic. really is. It really isn't magic. And it's not just reserved for those who live in middle income or better zip codes. All kids, again, all kids can learn and do hard things. How are we going to ensure that that happens?

Rachael: I love that Chris and that's the perfect note for us to end on. All kids can learn and do hard things. I love it. You need a teacher but something that can start to materialize that in a different way. Well, thank you for your time today Chris. I really appreciate it.

Chris: I enjoyed it very much. Thank you.

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