Rachael Maves: Hello everyone, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are speaking with Dr. Simone Charles. Dr. Charles is the principal of Walt Whitman Continuation High School, a California model school recognized for its innovative student-centered approach. She was named ACSA Region 16 Principal of the Year in 2022 and received the Valuing Diversity Award in 2025.

As the chairperson of the 2024 State AXA Institute, she helped lead statewide efforts to support scholars in alternative education. Dr. Charles is a respected voice in the field with features in EDCAL Magazine, national webinars, and podcasts alongside Dr. Victor Rios. Dr. Simone Charles, thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Simone Charles: Thank you, thank you, Rachael. It's good to be here.

Rachael Maves: I'm really excited to get to know you a little bit better and to connect and hear more about your story. My team loves you. I just have to say. They talk a lot about the work that you're doing and leading at the continuation school. So you have to start with why did you choose a career in education?

Dr. Simone Charles: Big heart to them too, big heart to them. They are amazing.

Dr. Simone Charles: my gosh, so funny story, funny maybe not funny. One of my sisters, she was a counselor and as kids we would play school. That was like our Saturday activity so we started off kind of as nerds. I was in private industry working as an account consultant in Century City and just was not as enthused about that career as perhaps I should have been. I did that for five years and

Rachael Maves: Okay.

Dr. Simone Charles: My sister said, Simone, you've always loved education, you've always loved working with young people, why don't you think about teaching? And it was like just this light bulb went off and I was like, yeah. And so I took the CBEST test, passed it, gave my two weeks notice and never looked back and that was like 32 years ago. Absolutely love education. Yes, absolutely love it.

Rachael Maves: I it.

Rachael Maves: my god.

So tell me a little bit about like what were you teaching and how did you like choose this path and find this path in alternative education? Because that was my first teaching job, Simone. I have a huge part for students that are in that space. So I'd love to hear how that became kind of your niche.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes.

I love that.

Dr. Simone Charles: You know, it's interesting. I started off as an elementary school teacher. So I taught elementary school for 10 years, was an elementary school teacher of the year in Hawthorne School District. And then in 20, I think it was 2003, I transitioned from Hawthorne School District to LA Unified and just went into secondary. And I was like, ooh, secondary, know, high school, ooh. That was a little bit of a leap. mean, not...

Terribly so because in the interim between elementary school and the high school Gig so to speak I was in middle school. So I was a middle school assistant principal in Hawthorne but still that leap from middle school to high school was sort of a I'll say I don't want to say culture shock the culture shock came in the size of the school because in Hawthorne school district we had about 10,000 students district-wide

Rachael Maves: my gosh.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: At the one school I was at in LA Unified, there were 6,000 students at that one school, three tracks year round. So I was like, whoa. But came to love that as well. It's interesting because when you love education, you love education. So whether it's the little guys, those that in between group, or high schoolers, you just love what you do. ultimately opened up a new school. And then from the new school I was there, six years as principal.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: and then transitioned to an out-ed setting that this opportunity came about and I was like, hello, yes. So they're just kids. They're little guys in bigger bodies and they all need an education. So for me, it's just a natural progression of how do we support the next generation? How do we support the next age group? And how do we support our future scholars, our current scholars?

Rachael Maves: I love that. Yeah, that's great.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so for, we have some listeners that don't have a background in education. Could you explain a little bit about what alternative education is?

Dr. Simone Charles: Mm.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes, so there are several alt-ed settings and the alt-ed setting or alternative setting that I work in is a continuation high school. Basically what that means is that there are some scholars who perhaps weren't as successful as they could have been in the traditional high school setting and that could be for a number of reasons. It could be because of the size of the school. It could be for anxiety reasons. It could be a socio-emotional. For whatever reason they've fallen behind in the traditional high school setting as we know it.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: there since they're behind in credits we help them catch up we have to catch up and to get back on track and some of those scholars decide perhaps to go back to their traditional

Dr. Simone Charles: Did it not pick any of that up? That's all right. will start. No worries. I will start again.

Rachael Maves: I don't know. I'm not quite sure what it picked up and what it didn't.

So Simone, for those who aren't educators that listen to the podcast, can you tell us a little bit about what alternative education is?

Dr. Simone Charles: We're good.

Dr. Simone Charles: absolutely. So alternative education, there's several different settings. I'm in the continuation setting. And basically what that means is that our scholars are continuing their education. For whatever reason, they weren't as successful in the traditional high school setting as they could have been. And that could be socio-emotional reasons. It could be the...

the structure of the traditional high school setting whereby you have like, you know, eight classes or you have 2,000 scholars and my school, we only have 75. So we actually get to know them. We get to know the families. We get to see them and we help them catch up on credits. So they have fallen behind in credits and are not on track initially to graduate with their cohort, with their peers in their same grouping. We help them to catch up and they have an option they can either

Rachael Maves: you

Dr. Simone Charles: with us and graduate or they can go back to their traditional high school and graduate. And interestingly enough we have about 95 to 99 percent of the scholars who decide to stay with us and graduate with us. Yeah, you know what I'm

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Really? That's not common in a continuation school.

Dr. Simone Charles: You know, think, well, first of all, we show them a lot of love and care, and we get to know them. We know them by name. We know their families. I sit out there at lunch with them every day when we have lunch together. my teachers are there. One of my teachers plays basketball with them every day during the lunch hour. So they actually have someone, and it reminds me of that, know,

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: that. Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: where everybody knows your name. So everybody knows their name and they know who they are. We get to see them and I tell them you were seen. You're not invisible. I know you. I know when you're not here and I tell them I miss you when you're not here at school.

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Rachael Maves: Thank

Rachael Maves: that well no wonder they're staying then. I mean that really does speak of the culture that you've created because oftentimes and that was my experience.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yeah

Rachael Maves: in alternative education programs, usually the goal is how do we get back to the school that we were at? And so it creates a really high turnover of students that is the kind of a revolving door and being able to look then at that contiguous enrollment data is so critical. But that's, I mean, that's pretty impressive for you guys and the, again, the setting and atmosphere you've created for those kids.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes.

Dr. Simone Charles: And I think it's that, you know, we have a great team. I have to say it is not just me. It is like everyone on our site. You know, we're small but mighty. We have three teachers. We have a parent rep, our custodian. Everybody knows our kids. And I think it's really important that we all know them. It's a school community. It has to be.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, as you think about your students and what they're holding and the work that you guys are doing, what are one or two things that keep you up at night?

Dr. Simone Charles: Huh, let's see.

nothing keeps me up at night right now as much as it did during the COVID school closures.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: Then it was like, okay, you know, those text messages, emails, phone calls, reminders of them staying, staying the course. And if I had to transfer that to present day, I would say still that staying the course, like, okay, how can we motivate them? What other opportunities can we give them? Because I always say that they're not second class, not second hand, they just needed a second chance. So how are we providing that? And for me, the things that keep me up at night are

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: What other things can we give them that they may miss because they're not at that traditional high school? Or what other opportunities can we help them to garner that's going to propel them forward?

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's amazing. that sounds like that's kind of the lens of the way that you're approaching their time in academia with you, right? What else does that look like? Do you find, because this is such a much smaller setting, being able to personalize that learning is something that you guys have a little bit more ability to do?

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes.

Dr. Simone Charles: You know, we do and...

Rachael Maves: Simone if froze for me again.

Dr. Simone Charles: that personalized learning is having them take courses. We have a great dual enrollment program. part of that personalization is bringing those college courses to our scholars. So we have partnered with the National Equity Lab. And yes, so I am super in love with that opportunity that it brings to our scholars. So they've taken classes with Brown University.

Rachael Maves: that's great.

Rachael Maves: Don't you

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: with Cornell University, with ASU, and one of the HBCUs, Morehouse. So they have done phenomenally well.

Rachael Maves: That's great.

Dr. Simone Charles: Nine of my scholars last year were inducted into the National Honor Society because they did so well in the course and I am so proud of them. But also bringing those, in addition to that, I brought courses from West LA College too. they were CPR certified. So now you can just not, yeah, exercise your brain. Now let's exercise that skill set. Some of you may want to be a pyramid. Some of you just saving, know, learning how to do the

Rachael Maves: that's exciting.

Rachael Maves: Gloria!

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: and helping out a family member or someone who may be in need. So I found that to be beneficial too because they not only are learning a skill set, they're actually getting college credit as well.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that's fantastic. it sounds like that's one of the ways that you're really looking at addressing those things that keep you up at night, keeping them engaged, finding those pathways. Are there any other things that you feel like really set your system apart or ways that you're trying to address that?

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes.

Dr. Simone Charles: through project-based learning for sure. we use defined learning as a matter of fact, but we also have some of the district resources that we use to help our scholars. Let me give you an example. They did bridge building last...

Rachael Maves: Mm.

Dr. Simone Charles: I believe it was last December during the winter academy session and they absolutely loved it. They stress tested their bridges. They talked about their design. Each one of them looked totally different, but they talked about their design and they were able to work in teams. And that's really important because sometimes, know, you think, I can just do this by myself. I can be, you know, my sole engineer or sole architect. But they needed to see that some things

Rachael Maves: Mm-hmm.

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: cannot just be done in a silo. So they worked together and they were...

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: I don't, they didn't surprise me because I always tell them I see more in you perhaps than you see in yourselves. But they shocked themselves and they were like, my bridge didn't break. I was like, nope, there it is. So they, and so we, we called them architects, architects and we call them engineers and just using those terms and labels so that they can feel what we see in them and their potential is so important.

Rachael Maves: Mm.

Rachael Maves: Look at us!

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. How fun too to create that application hands on they get to dive in. That's so that's great. Well as. Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: It was so cool. Yes.

And they talked about it. They actually got a chance to describe what they did, the process that they went through, and how they had to change their design or use different materials. that whole concept from start to finish of what it took to build this and to make it a structurally sound was so important. And I just loved hearing them talk about it and explain it. So it was really neat.

Rachael Maves: Mm-mm.

Rachael Maves: I love that. it sounds like then they wrapped up with some sort of a presentation and went through the whole thought process, what worked, what didn't work, how they had to adjust. I mean, that's fantastic.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yes. We videotaped them presenting their final bridge project. during that presentation, they explained what they did in the process, the steps that they took, and who did what, and how this person helped a little bit here, a little bit there, and then it ultimately came together. So it was really nice.

Rachael Maves: yeah.

Rachael Maves: that's great. Awesome. Well, we're going to wrap up with our final question for our time together. What question in education are we not asking that we really should be?

Dr. Simone Charles: I think that we're not asking the scholars what they see for the future. So we plan for them, we guide them and we help support them along the way, but we need to ask them what things that they think that they should be learning because they're looking at things and seeing things through their lens and their age grouping and we're not always aware of that. We talk to them, yes, but

Rachael Maves: Yes.

Dr. Simone Charles: are we talking, speaking with them and having them as thought partners? So I think we need to, the question that we're not asking is how can we further involve our scholars as being thought partners in their own education?

Rachael Maves: Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that where they're the ones who are driving their path and what that looks like for them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Simone, it was just such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. I really appreciate you.

Dr. Simone Charles: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Dr. Simone Charles: thank you. I so love meeting you, Rachael. Thank you so much. This was a really great opportunity to share about Alt-Ed and continuation school. So thank you so much.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, and the great work you're doing, and your kids, that's awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Simone Charles: my scholars love it. Super proud of them.

Rachael Maves: Well, a friendly reminder everyone that Parsec Education's updated early bird sale is live until August 31st. Get 50 % off tickets for the 2026 Measure What We Value Summit happening February 4th through 5th in Fresno, California. Don't miss this limited time offer and the opportunity to experience our incredible MC Brandon Leake, Season 15 winner of America's Got Talent. Secure your tickets now at parsecsummit.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.