Rachael Maves: Hello everyone. You are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today, we are speaking with Liz Brenner. Liz is the superintendent at Compass Charter School. She has over 25 years of experience working in charter schools in California. Her vast experience includes positions as a teacher, site administrator, and district level administrator.

She's a fierce advocate for charter schools because she believes that parents should be able to choose the education setting that best fits the needs of their children, regardless of where they live. Liz, thank you for joining me today.

Elizabeth Brenner: Thank you, Rachael. I appreciate you taking the time today.

Rachael Maves: Well, I'm just excited for this. Conversation. You are one of our wonderful partners at Parsec. My team loves you and the work that you're doing. So, I'm excited just to talk through and learn a little bit more about your journey.

Elizabeth Brenner: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Rachael Maves: So, let's start there. Tell me a little bit about why you chose education. What was it that brought you down this career path?

Elizabeth Brenner: Well, I really started my career in education in college. I'm originally from New Jersey and I went to Kean University, which years ago was actually called Newark State Teachers College. And so I was very fortunate in my college education to have teaching classes every year and practicums every. Year. And the way the program worked, that once you finished your sophomore year, you really had to commit to the teaching program. And then when I graduated, I had my degree in English and education and I had my teaching credential in New Jersey.

So, it was actually a really cool program that gave me lots of opportunities to visit different education settings and all different grade levels. And I really realized that I wanted a career in education that served underserved populations. So, in my college experience, I actually had the opportunity to work in schools in Newark in different urban areas in New Jersey, where I just saw the level of poverty and how where those children lived dictated the education that they would receive, the environment that they were in, and just how difficult it was to really break out of those systems that really don't provide an equal education, even though it's a public education and it's supposed to be the same for everyone. I was able to do practicums in all different neighborhoods. And I just saw the disparity between more affluent areas and the type of public education they received, in contrast with those that were in more lowincome areas, and the lack of resources and the. Crowded classrooms.

It was really eye opening for me, and so that is when I really decided that my passion was to work with those upper underrepresented, it under represented populations, and so, when I moved out to California, I had the opportunity to work at an adult school and so started my career there, and then started working with a charter school that was serving students who had dropped out of high school and were aged 16 to 24 and being reconnected to their education, and that is really where my heart was. And so I was able to work there for over 20 years, and then recently,. Yeah. And just seeing the difference that education can make and, you know, working with young people who came in with like huge education deficits, you know, sometimes at the elementary level in reading and math, and within two years really getting their levels up to where they need to be and being able to be trained for their career or college after, was really amazing for me to see. And that's when I also started getting interested in data. And so in my journey, I a lot of times there really weren't good data sources to show the impact that we were having on young.

People. So I was always working with my school to create reports, work with different software, find ways to really show how we were making a difference in the lives of these young people. And so then, two years ago, I ended up at Compass. I had the opportunity to join Compass as their superintendent and be in this virtual environment. So Compass is a virtual school that serves scholars TK through 12th grade and in a variety of settings. And so I really learned a lot about how that virtual education can provide our parents and our scholars with.

That personalized pathway that allows them to grow. And that is very much like, connected to my vision and my heart, of providing that equal education opportunity to all families, no matter where they live. That, you know, charter schools provide these choices. And it's been amazing to see the impact of how this personalized learning, where we really see every scholar working, you know, on a different curriculum, at a different pace, with that supervising teacher who's really guiding them, with their parents and family members supporting them, and able to have that personalized learning experience. I think it really is the future of education.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that, Liz. And what a breadth of the your career, starting on the East Coast, moving to the West Coast. I mean, a little opposite, too, in some of the approaches to education and training. I'd love to hear a little bit more and this is kind of a bit of a birdwalk, but there aren't too many people that have gone through like truly a teacher education college where within the four years, you're getting everything that you need and your degree so that you can launch and teach. I'd love to hear just how you felt that prepared you for the classroom in a different. Way.

Elizabeth Brenner: Thank you. Yes, I was really surprised when I came out to California and found out that, basically, if you want to be a teacher, you have to do a fifth year of college, and it's just like an add-on, you know. For me it was just so critical because, like I said, I, all the way from freshman year, I did actual practicums where I had to go to schools, you know, shadow teachers. We had to, we had to observe every. Grade level, like not every single, not one through 12, but elementary, middle, and high school at the median income, low income, and high income. And so, and I also saw some magnet schools.

There was one that was really cool, that was, it was a magnet school, so it wasn't a charter, but they had four like houses within the school. It was a middle school. And so, they had one that was like sports, arts, math and science, and, I think, English and literature. And the kids were like in these different houses,. Within the school, focusing on what their strengths were, and they were still doing all the other things, but they had these like really cool focus on like their strengths and I just thought it was such an amazing program and that was in an urban area, actually near Newark. So, it was just really cool to have that experience, to have that opportunity.

And I think I mentioned earlier after sophomore year, you had to make that decision and a lot of my peers decided not to be teachers because they were like: no, this is not for me. You know when they had to go through that and I feel like that's really important. We know that teacher retention is such a challenge and I think a lot of that has to do with teacher preparation and so for me being able to have that experience in college and of course, we were learning all kinds of educational theory and you know my classes were very geared towards. I was doing lesson plannings, we were doing Madeline Hunter. But the interesting thing, yeah, when I came to I don't want to myself too much, but when I came to California they had the clad certification and so I had just finished my education in New Jersey. The reciprocity was good between the two states.

But I was like, "Oh, my goodness, I don't want to take more classes.". Like, I'm, I'm just. And so I looked at the material and it was exactly what I had learned in my help, you know, as part of my preparation. So I was able to just take the tests and pass all of them, because it was that was part of my. Education.

Rachael Maves: [speaker uncertain] Yeah.

Elizabeth Brenner: So, I feel like that is something that we really need to look at: our sec, our higher education, and how we prepare teachers, because it's not an easy job and the more training and the more experience and exposure you can have, the better.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that, Liz, and I mean such a great model too, to for people to really understand after that first year. Is this what we want to do? And we see that setup in other practices. I think it's a great idea and something to be thinking about. And that leads us right into our next question that I'd love to get your thoughts on, especially coming from a virtual charter school. Leader.

What keeps you up at night? What are the things that you're seeing, either in your system or statewide, that really is weighing heavily on you as you lead your?

Elizabeth Brenner: Well, this is a very timely question because right now we are in a fierce battle against anti-charter legislation that is trying to be passed and I have been in that advocacy space for a long time. And it is very disheartening when laws come up that are so targeted to charter schools. And they, you know, I have seen the charter school movement go from the wild west, where it was basically you don't have to follow ED code, you just have to follow your charter to a place now where we have, I feel, more rules and restrictions and accountability than a traditional public. School. And so, and that perception that charter schools are not public schools is just really damaging. And so, we're seeing this at the national level.

We're seeing this at the state level. The pitting of charter schools against traditional schools and the attacks that we are constantly having to fend off are real. And for charter school,. Every five years, five to seven years, we have to defend the existence of our school. And, like renewal is so, it's an existential threat. You know, we don't.

We don't know from year to year if we are going to be able to continue to operate. I just had to close one of my learning centers because the laws changed and we were no longer able to operate where we are. This is a school that had a 100% participation in state. Zero suspension rate, zero dropout rate. 100% of our eighth graders, for since the inception of the program, graduated from high school and their test scores were higher than the county that they were in, the district that they were in, and statewide. And that program is now closed because of these added restrictions, these additional laws that are targeted at charter schools.

And we are just seeing more and more charter schools, even those that are doing well, not getting renewed, getting shut down. And it's not for education, you know. Actually, I spoke at the board meeting where I was giving, presenting my charter, and my families were there and it was. Amazing. But I said,: 'You know what? It's 8:00 at night and I haveund and some young people TK through 8 fighting to keep their school open.

Yeah, that's, that's not acceptable. You know, that doesn't exist in the public, the traditional public school realm. And so that, and I think that it's the threat of innovation. It is that we are doing things differently, and that threat, you know, having. Families choose charter schools over their traditional schools is what is keeping us from moving forward. And it's.

It's not just hindering charter schools, it's hindering innovation in education. And we're all still doing it. We're still fighting. We all, you know, but I just reflect sometimes like how much my peers and I and the advocacy groups that I'm part of, we're just always fighting. We never get a break. We never get the opportunity to just say, "Okay, we're good and we're moving forward.".

It's. Next thing. Yeah. What's the next threat? What's the next piece of legislation? What's the next lawsuit?

What's going to happen to us budgetwise? You know, I mean, it is just, it's exhausting. And so that's what keeps me up at night. And I hope, but I'm still hopeful. So I hope that we can continue to advocate for change and realize that change and find a way to. Work in this environment, move together, move forward together to promote education for all of our scholars, all of our students across the country.

Every, you know, whether their income level or their learning ability, or their strengths or their interests, you know, their hopes and dreams and goals, like having that support system for every single child is really critical. So, that's what I, that's what keeps me. Doing the work, even though it's Well, understandably so.

Rachael Maves: And as you think about that list just from your own lens and I mean because this is a pretty policy, rich discussion, and maybe for I know that you're a charter guru, maybe for people who are listening that aren't quite so much there really has been a shift and change in charter schools and the role of charter schools since the inception, right the when charter schools were first created, the idea behind it was exactly what you said: if we remove all restrictions and barriers,. What would it look like if a school could innovate without having to have some of these bureaucratic pieces that are put upon them? And then the idea was that they would be these innovative hubs that then would share out and could be learning centers for other districts to even learn and grow. And since then it has, I would say, evolved, holding into some of those pieces. And looking at how do we provide more school choice like and turning it into more of that free marketplace, competit, competition. And then when you layer in declining enrollment and less K-12 students in general, especially in California, and then the what that does between the relationship with districts and chart, it creates like a whole different dynamic and you're like you're in the middle of that right now, trying to navigate.

What does this world look like and how do we do it effectively? And, at the center, make sure that it always comes back to the kids, because I fully agree with you. There is not one system that's going to work for every single. Student. And how do we ensure that kids can go to the place that is going to best meet their needs so that they can be successful and thrive? So, I'd love to hear, just as you're like thinking about all of this, Liz, what are the two ways that you see and for us to be able to move forward in that context?

Elizabeth Brenner: Well, I think one is really technology, you know, and the disruption that is happening right now with AI and how that is going to impact education is going to have a impact and change over the next 5, 10, you know, 15 years. And it's had. We're seeing it already. And we already have the people that are just fighting it and trying to, you know, not use it and keep it out and regulate it. And then we have the people that are using it in all different kinds of ways and really looking at being creative. I.

Have been watching this, obviously with everyone else, for the past year, and it's amazing to me just to see how this technology is growing and evolving so quickly and ways it can empower education. So, like for me, what? One of the things that we do really well, I believe, is that we're not tied to one curriculum. We have multiple curriculums that are, you know, approved and they meet the standards, and then our teachers and parents work together to choose, because a math curriculum might work really well for a kid, and then they need a different English curriculum. And so to have that ability to pull from different sources instead of everybody just following one path is. Incredible.

And I can see AI, you know, if you can put a whole bunch of different curriculum into an AI interface and then tailor that curriculum for that child. That's very powerful and it allows the teacher and the parent, everybody who's the people who are working with that child to focus on their relationship, focus on the real learning, the analytical part of it, the communication part of it, without having to dig through a million lessons every night and try to figure out what's going to work best. Yeah. The other thing is it grows with the child. You know, I mean, we you could have a child that is really thriving in math one year and then the next year, because of the way the concepts are changing, they really start to struggle and then they need something. Different.

And so, and so often, we're working from this deficit mindset, right? Like, just what do they need help with? Let's support that. And we tend to not stretch so much in the positive area of like. Let's really focus on their strengths and how that, you know, the parts of education that are exciting for them can ignite that spark that sends them into a different, you know, trajectory, that they learn a new thing about a new job that maybe they didn't weren't interested in before, you know, a new pathway. And so I think that there's so much and obviously, as with any you know technology advancement, there are pitfalls and we need to be looking and we're already seeing it like, hone in like, now that we're looking at these models similar to what I just said, where, instead of it just searching everything, because we know that can be problematic,.

Right? It's searching a finite data set. And then being able to pull that together. And it just that is what excites me. And again, I feel like charter schools, virtual schools, we are the ones that are already doing this in a lot of ways and are going to be able to take that new technology and adopt it and adapt it much more quickly, because we don't have those fixed mindsets of if the kids are not in a class for 45 minutes in front of the teacher all doing the same thing, then they're not learning. And that is still what we are.

Fighting. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Maves: Well, as we wrap up, Liz, this is my favorite question. I ask people because I'm always interested to see what where their minds go. But what question in education are we not asking that we really should be?

Elizabeth Brenner: I guess I think that we are not asking how we can unlock the full potential of every one of our students. It's really more about, you know, meeting standards or meeting a goal or competing with another country or, you know, providing a certain workforce. But if we could really focus on potential and growing that within our children and having them have the hope and the support to realize that potential. That is transformative, right? That would transform our country, our education system, our workforce. That shift in really having the ability to look at each individual child as having wonderful potential and then how, what our role is in nurturing that.

Rachael Maves: I love that, Liz. And I just love how you continue to reinforce the assetbased focus like: how do we focus on the strengths? The strengths.

Elizabeth Brenner: [speaker uncertain] The strengths.

Rachael Maves: I love that. Thank you for your time today, Liz. I really appreciated this conversation and discussion with you.

Elizabeth Brenner: Thank you, Rachael. I appreciate your time as well.

Rachael Maves: A friendly reminder that Parsec Education's updated early bird sale is live until October 31st. Get 25% off tickets for the 2026 Measure What We Value Summit happening February 4th through 5th in Fresno,. California. Don't miss this limited time offer and the opportunity to experience our incredible MC Brandon Leak, season 15 winner of America's Got Talent. Secure your tickets now at parsecsummit.com.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.