Rachael Maves: Hi, you are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I, Rachael Maves your host. Today we are talking to Amy Galloway, the executive director and co-founder of Pivot School Improvement leaders. Amy has spent 15 years working in schools across Nashville, Philadelphia and New York City as both a special and general education teacher, assistant principal and principal, notably, and I would say this:. Is amazing. She transformed a neighborhood Elementary School from the lowest performing the state to one of the top 5% within 4 years after her time as a principal, Amy transitioned to the Tennessee Department of Education, where she and I first met, and she led professional development and leadership development for principals and supervisors across the state. She is.

Currently completing her doctoral program at Vanderbilt University in K-12 education, leadership and policy and I will just say once again, even though Amy knows this, the work that she is leading at Pivot for school Improvement leaders is just critical and such a need as we continue to support principals in the field. Amy, thank you for joining me today. I'm so excited to have this conversation. With you.

Amy Galloway: Thank you, Rachael. I'm so excited to be here.

Rachael Maves: So, like always in the podcast, I'm really interested to hear kind of your perspective, especially with your being so in the weeds with principals right now. It first of all: why did you choose education? I mean, just help us get that picture and understanding of your story, of that pathway.

Amy Galloway: Yeah, so I think, like many people,. In this field. It wasn't actually my original plan at all. I had to Teach for America out of college and even Teach for America. My journey to Teach for America it was one where you know the person who comes onto the campuses. Like they were.

They recruited me. I learned about it through. Them. It wasn't necessarily something I sought out, but there was this aligning at that point in my life where I had been doing this volunteer work and working with the group of kids at a women's shelter and I really loved it. I had been Deep In The Weeds of some sociology coursework around inequity in. Our country and then the TFA opportunity came up.

So all of these things collided at the same time and, you know, I made a decision that this was what was best for the next phase of My Life, and so I was an 06 New York City Corp member and I got into it, and so many times I thought about doing. Something else professionally, but I kept staying. I, you know, I moved from being a special education teacher to a leader. I had some time teaching gen ed. I had this amazing opportunity where I got to loop with a group of students from sixth grade to seventh grade to eighth grade and just really. Understood the complexity of relationships and connections and Trust, yeah, and how that impacts student learning so deeply and I you know.

Eventually I joined KIPP. So I spent a lot of my professional career with KIPP Philadelphia and then KIPP Nashville and I was really lucky to have amazing mentors and amazing leadership development. Experiences and I think, ultimately, I'm I like. I love the Journey of learning and I love the Journey of growing and I love that our field is this field that is in continuous Improvement, on this just constant journey to learn more about learning and how we ensure all kids are learning. And I love Community, I love. I love people, I love being a part of other people's stories, and you know that's what this work is.

It's it's human work and it's Growth work, and so at this point I just you know this is for me. I feel really comfortable in education. I love this space.

Rachael Maves: That's wonderful. So tell me a little bit about like what. Is it? Do you have like a certain event or experience that really kind of was what gave you the bug for Education, that you could pinpoint, or anything that you would say, yeah, it was just this.

Amy Galloway: Yeah, oh gosh, I have so many of them, I there's a student who I you know, I just I had such a good. Relationship with, and he was in that group of students who I got to follow their cohort and teach them for 3 years, and he was so. He was 2 years older than his grade level and I started teaching him in sixth grade and he couldn't read at all and learning how to help him. Learn over. That Journey has just been really crucial for me and how I think about this work. Actually, just not too long ago, this past spring, got a Facebook message from his mom.

All these years later and it was a couple months old. I hadn't seen it, but when I got it I wrote back right away because she was so. Excited because he had just finished his GED and they she asked if they could call me. So I just recently, you know, and I taught him starting in 2007, so it's been it's been a long time, you know, but so, anyway, just learning how to help him learn to read, and we would. He loved Harry Potter, but he couldn't. You know, he couldn't read those books yet.

So we at the time we would listen to them on tape and then eventually like on CD, but learning how to teach phonic so that I could teach him and others how to read, and being a part of that Journey, it was just, it was so special. And then you know,. Having relationships with his family and being a part of that Community. It just really it helped me to learn about just like what's important in our world, in our city ities, in our spes. It helped me to learn so much and I just love being able to help him learn too. So, yeah, you know I.

Do think that education's kind of that special field. You know where it's like. Yes, we have all of these policy and huge initiatives and strategy going on, but at the end of the day, it's because we want to hear, like those stories of, yes, kids, that, yes, the people, the relationship, yeah, absolutely, Amy.

Rachael Maves: For this next question, as we start to talk about what keeps you,. Up at night. This is the one I'm I'm really excited at. You're doing such deep work at Pivot around school leaders and maybe even as a preface, you could share just a little bit about the work of Pivot, why you founded this company, what your hope is, and then I would love to transition that into based. On all of that work. Really, what is keeping you up at night as you think about education?

Amy Galloway: Sure, yeah, so Pivot launch just so over a year and a half ago, and we are on a mission to equip and Empower leaders, specifically leaders in our highest need and lowest performing schools. We deeply believe that. Leaders are the lever to Improvement in schools. We know that often in our complex policy, research, practice, intersections often change. You know attempts at change often go around a principal and two teachers right, because so much of the work actually happens in classrooms and we think that is an incredible, not just missed opportunity but is, you know, an ineffective strategy. We believe that principal you,.

Know is the leader of their school, and whether or not an improvement effort, you know, a new initiative, whether it's a curriculum or anything else, is going to be effective the principal being not just the face but the voice, the knowledge behind the vision for really being able to own it in their building is going to make or break whether or not it has a positive impact. On student learning y and that, combined with you know we have principal retention across the country is of huge concern right now. It's actually, you know, lots of data tells a story that it's even in a more challenging situation than teacher. Attention is in, you know, and many principals stay at their school, like roughly 3 years average principal retention of. Course, like lots of variation depending on school type, Community. When we think about our highest need schools, that's where principal retention is the lowest.

Yeah, and it's also where schools are more likely to have our inexperienced principals or our beginning. You know that they're in the beginning of their leadership Journey. Those are the schools that need the most effective. Leadership. So you know principal retention. Obviously teacher retention is huge right now and one of the biggest levers for improving teacher attention is ensuring that they are working in the school Community where they feel like they belong, like they are growing, like they have voice, and the principal is the lover in making that happen too right?

So if we want to improve teacher. Retention. We've got to improve the effectiveness of our principals. People leadership, skills y. All of this is really complicated and then we add to it just the complexity of the job. Right like our principals have got to be instructional leaders.

They've got to be people leaders. They've got to be able to create community and culture, not just for kids and families, which is huge, and. Also for their teams. Right like this is a Professional Organization. Each school is a system, and the principal needs to build a culture that is one where adults can flourish and where they want to stay. And then, on top of that, they have to be the operational leader.

And when we talk about the instructional leadership side, right like our principals, are responsible for ensuring that kids are. Learning and that means they've got to know curriculum, they've got to know instructional strategy, they've got to be able to walk into plc's where they're analyzing student work or doing a unit prep or a lesson prep, and understand where their school's data is, where their school's, their students like current learning is that's right, and not just engage but, you know, be able to be a. Lever in that conversation and so just the breadth of skills and knowledge that they need. It's a very complicated job, and to do it well in a school that is serving a student population that has, you know, significant social and emotional needs makes it even more complicated, because it is very likely that a principal has spent his or her day, you know, navigating complex. Challenges that kids are bringing to school just because of trauma, right, and the impact that has on us as people, and so whether that manifests in some challenging behaviors, complex family situations, lots of really urgent crisis situations, right, and so you might go from a really complicated, intense, urgent family meeting to being able to walk into that lesson prep with. Teachers and you've got to be able to do both really well, and they take a very different skill set.

So yeah to your question, Rachael. I mean, I think what keeps me up at night is just the principal job in general, the fact that these jobs are really hard and I think in many other fields a job that's this. Complicated. There's way fewer of that of the job in other fields, whereas in our field, you know we have in Tennessee we have roughly like 1,700 principals is close to that number. You know that's a manageable number, but that's when we're talking about Preparing People to be effective in that role. That's a big number and you know we've just we've got to do a better job of preparing.

Leaders and then supporting leaders and letting leaders lead, like knowing they have the preparation, knowing they have the support and then letting them lead. And you know I directly coach a number of leaders through our work at Pivot and, yeah, I could just take you through a day in the life where you know a principal has spent hours kind of fighting fires and. Analyzing data and figuring out an alternate schedule, you know, For an upcoming early dismissal, and just the number of complex things they do in a day. It is, it's very intense and they just I think their stories deserve to be elevated and our kind of larger ecosystem needs to adjust to the fact that, like they are the levers for Change and we should be supporting through them,. Yeah, it's.

Rachael Maves: I love what you're doing, Amy, and I agree. I think it's something that, as we think about education and those places that we have gaps and opportunities, I do think that principal leadership is a massive one because, as you've shared, we know from research that not only are principals like the function of that role self-critical, but they're also one of the biggest levers. To be able to impact change for student outcomes. And yet if we look at the support that they're being provided and the opportunities for mentorship and coaching in all of these disperate areas, very little exists out of that initial admin program. And then it's like: here's your keys and good luck, and we hope it goes well. Yes, so to be able to provide that kind of elbow to Elbow, side by side.

Support, I think is just huge when you think about that role and the work that you're doing and some of the things that you're seeing as the gaps and the things that keep you up at night, and I know that you've already started to put some things in practice. What are two really practical ways that District leaders can think about moving that work forward? And. Supporting their principals.

Amy Galloway: Yeah, well, I think one really concrete thing is ensuring that principals are getting development and support that matches the level of accountability they have. Right, because what's going to make someone be effective is being in a high accountability environment, but having high levels of support to match that level of accountability. And so thinking about principal meeting structures. Principal management structures, principal coaching structures and principal Community structures that match the level of accountability they feel. And I think you know, of course, in districts people are always constrained with, you know, with human resources and with financial resources and I think even within those constraints there's that a lot that can be done with principal community in a district on its own right. So getting principals into each others, building having formal structures where principals are collaborating, where they are walking classrooms together, where they are talking about instruction and also talking about their ongoing problems of practice that are not related to instruction but related to culture and people leadership and I can't emphasize that enough because I do think our field has made sign significant strides in seeing principals.

As instructional leaders, and I think an unintended consequence of that progress is that we've really left out this conversation around people, leadership and the complex jobs principals have to manage the people in their building in this, like positive, inclusive culture where teachers want to stay and grow and so creating Community among principals where they can wrestle with both of. Those things, the instruction, the instructional side of the world and the people side of the work, I think is so important. And then I think you know, the other again, in the constraints that people have, I think another thing that's very possible is, you know, I think too often in our work leaders think they can be a coach or they can be an. Evaluator and that they can't be both of those things, and I just completely disagree with that and I think that really effective management relationships are both of those things. You know, you're helping your people grow and you're helping them understand where they stand. Kind of against a criteria of Effectiveness for a role, yeah, and so.

Thinking about the supervisor capacity to do that well, I think is a thing that districts can and should be problem solving around.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I, you know I love that you called that out because I do think that there is an emphasis on a evaluation. But how do you do coaching and what does that look like and how do. You have difficult, challenging conversations that are both honest but kind and help people see what that clear path is for improvement, to move forward. That is not innate. I think that is a skill that we all have to build, and in education that's I agree. I think that's a place that we have a lot of.

Work to do and providing those supports still 100%.

Rachael Maves: [speaker uncertain] Yeah, one of the one of the ways that we always like to wrap up the podcast, Amy, is really giving the opportunity to hear from your lens what is a question and education that we're not asking, that we probably should be right, sure, yeah, so I think I want to.

Amy Galloway: I want to see more. I. Want to see more research around where this intersection of where teachers have stayed, leaders have stayed and schools have continued to improve, and an analysis of, like the conditions that have created that right. So where are the schools where we have stability in our people and we have continued Improvement and outcomes across all student groups? Yeah, right, and then what are the conditions that are contributing to? That because I think, like the idea of stability in a school is something we also, I don't think talk about a ton.

We talk about teacher retention, we talk about principal retention, but the impact of those things is a stable School Community, right, a community where the principal knows me and my little sister and my little brother and my mom and sees me all the way through right. And then when I come back in middle school to pick up my little sister at the end of the day like still remembers who I am, yeah, and that in a space where our student learning is also increasing right, where outcomes are getting better across all of our student groups not just for some student groups, but for. Every student group. Right, I want to see. I want to see that. I want to see more research that analyzes our proof points and I think, you know, I know those exist and it's hard to find research that really surfaces those stories and so I would love yeah, I would just love to see, I would love.

To see more of that. And then the other thing. This is very separate from the one I just mentioned, but you know so much of our work right now is focused on high quality instructional materials and ensuring kids are getting access to grade level standards and grade level content. Right I do in our work. I work with several High School leaders. And the really complex challenge of instruction in high school for kids who have significant gaps in foundational skills, both on the literacy and the math side.

And I'm kind of Deep In The Weeds on the math side right now and in some of our work with some of the leaders I support. So my mind is there, but I want to know more about you know where are high schools? Closing gaps in foundational skills for kids and math and still ensuring kids are learning material and accessing grade level content right. It's a really complicated thing to do and algebra one rates right now are across our country, are not? You know, they're not in great shape and I know those are possible to do and I want to see more about where. Where is that happening and what strategies are those schools using?

So those are, yeah, two things that come to mind.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love that idea of really being able to mind for some of the bright spots, so that we can kind of figure out what are those characteristics and qualities that we can begin to scale and help Implement within systems across the country. Not,. Just in the ones that are doing it really well. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Any final thoughts, Amy? I haven't done this before, but any final thoughts that you would love just to leave our listeners with, as you're holding this space within principal support and development?

Amy Galloway: Yeah, well, I mean it's, it's good timing. I think it's a, you know, the second to last day of our like. Principal, appreciation month or some, you know one of those social media constructs that's wonderful for servicing people's stories, right? Yeah, so just to bring it back to leaders, you know, I all of us, in all of our communities, no matter where we are listening right now, like we have principals who are leading schools that are hubs of neighborhoods and. Communities for people, and I just guarantee that so many of those principals were answering phone calls and figuring out sub coverages probably before many of us were even awake in the morning. Right, and many of them will still be at their schools or at sporting events or a community meeting this evening and in between they will have solved so many complex problems and been.

In tons of classrooms across multiple content areas, right, and so I think just surfacing that and reminding us of that incredible work that our principls across our states are doing and ensuring you know that we're all giving them the appreciation and the gratitude that they really deserve yeah, I love that.

Rachael Maves: So, for anyone listening, I want to do a call to action of what Amy just. Shared. If you're in the school system or you know a principal, reach out to them. Just send them a nice thank you note, say I see you. I want to just say how much I appreciate you. I know it would make their day.

They're holding a lot and often aren't necessarily the ones that we first think of when we. Think about school systems, so I love that idea and, listeners, if you think about it, post on social media any great experiences you've had. We'd love to hear about that too. Amy, thank you for your time today. I just really appreciate it. As always, love hearing about the work that you're doing with principals.

Wish you nothing but the best as you continue to really serve that critical area in education. Thank you for your work.

Amy Galloway: Thank you, Rachael. I really appreciate this time.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.