Rachael Maves: Hello everyone. You are listening to the Rachael Maves podcast and I'm Rachael Maves, your host. Today we are talking to Tim Lopez, the associate superintendent of educational services in Sanger Unified School District, where he is in his 35th year. Wow, in education he has been a high school science teacher, football coach, volleyball and soccer coach, athletic director, assistant principal, Elementary principal and area administrator. You've held all the positions, Tim. As the associate superintendent of Educational Services, he provides oversight and guidance of the curriculum and instruction, pupil Services, child welfare and attendance departments and provides oversight of the area superintendents with their various School sites and, I will also just add, is a fantastic partner with us here at Parsec education.

So thank you, Tim, for joining me today.

Tim Lopez: Well, thank you. It's always a pleasure to be able to talk through education, and not only my journey, but the Journey of Sanger Unified.

Rachael Maves: I'm really excited for this conversation. I think you as a practitioner, deep into the weeds of the work that we're doing, just brings such a level of insight of what's happening on the ground in education today, and I think, as you know, we love to start off the podcast just hearing from our participants about, like, why education for you? Like, what was your story? Why did you choose this as a career path?

Tim Lopez: Well, I'll tell you, Rachael, it's. It's really been an incredible journey for me, and I would start just with my childhood, my parents I had a family of six kids and brothers and sisters, and education was very important to us and our family. My parents didn't get an opportunity for higher education, but really emphasized from day one that's what we all were going to do and we all have our degrees. I had a wonderful chance to attend UCLA as an undergrad. And really I'm born and raised from Sanger and I anticipated through that I would be out in the world somewhere now. I did that in science and biology and anticipated to move to that field and so education was kind of an afterthought initially for me.

My wife was a math teacher and I was working in a lab and she talked about what amazing things that she was doing with kids and it just really appealed to me in that know, giving back to where I came from, giving back to kids much like me to give them the opportunities. And you know I anticipated when I started out I was going to be a science teacher for Life, absolutely loved it. And in administration, you know I just had a former. Principal that just saw leadership in me and just said: hey, Tim, you know, we know your leadership, we want to Foster that. So how about trying this for a while? So I've been have I've fortunate to have some amazing bosses that have seen that in me and fostered that and grew that and allowed me to grow throughout my career.

And I have done a lot of different levels. I absolutely love each one that I went through. But really for me, I did not choose it, kind of chose me, and once I found my space in education, just fell in love and kept moving forward.

Rachael Maves: I love that, Tim. I've heard that from a few guests on the podcast and I feel that way too, that nobody gets into education because they are really excited about the salary schedule or the pay. It's it, kids, that like this deep heart thing of the contribution, the value ad that you get to have to the Next Generation that's going to be up and coming in our society, and it is often said in those words of like I didn't choose, it chose me. There's something special there. I love that and I didn't know you were originally from Sanger. Like that's a full like Circle moment.

Tell me a little bit about that.

Tim Lopez: You know it's been very interesting and, as I said, as I went on off to UCLA, I never imagined that I'd be back in Sanger. But it was just a wonderful thing. I felt like here's a place where I can contribute. Here's a place where not only did I feel comfortable but I also felt I could make a big difference. I did get a chance to be at two different school districts, both in the valley, so I did have that opportunity, but N theless, I think for me I actually don't think it's only about Sanger Unified, I think about the kids in the valley, some of the adversity that some of our kids have to overcome and be able to think globally. I think that's a big thing for me too is that, you know, even though I here, I am sitting back in Sanger.

You know, I definitely think from a global perspective because our children now have to compete not only with other dist districts within the valley but globally for their future.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that's right. I will say I'm pretty new and coming to the Central Valley and as somebody who's kind of an outsider looking in, a guest in this community, I've heard people say often is like a big small town, right, like everybody kind of, and it is. I mean Fresno, in the this Central Valley area for those of our listeners that are outside of California, I mean very agricultural, contributing to a massive amount of the nation's food sores, and it's extremely large. Yet everybody knows one another, everybody kind of knows what's happening within the valley and it really does have this kind of like small town feel and connection and community and caring for one another. So I love that you're kind of giving back into that experience. I'd love, Tim, for you to tell me one of the things that you and I connected over about a little bit earlier this year was sangers principal Summit, and it's something that I haven't seen before, that I thought was just amazing and phenomenal, something that I think if you are a district leader, that is such a good practice that needs to be put into place, and I'd love for you just to share a little bit with our listeners, like wh one, like what is the structure and how do you put together this princi scho Summit and what is the purpose behind it, and maybe then the implications and the benefit of having that in place that you see within your District, sure?

Tim Lopez: Well, I'd love to say that I was the originator of this Sanger Summit, but we've been doing it probably over the last 20 years and I was an actual Elementary principal at one of my schools and when it started. So the essential idea is that the principal, through the guiding coalitions that they have their sites or leadership teams, they're given a set of prompts of how they plan to move forward. Now, a lot of times we have our site plans you know that we do. Sometimes those are just plans and they don't really mean what we do, so it's not necessarily to the degree that's implemented. So it's essentially a plan that's established, that's a written plan and currently we focus on some basic things. You know, how are you doing with your English language arts, your math, your social emotional learning, your mtss tiers you know be Behavior tiers.

So it's fairly basic in that and you have to write this plan of goals and. Data, what data you're using to establish the constant Improvement of your school, and so we take some time to develop that and use it, and, in fact, that plan we do actually use throughout the year. So, whether it's the area superintendent checking in with the principals myself included, you know we do look at their Summit plans and kind of look at the progress. So in addition to that, though, what we love and Park's been an amazing partner for us is an opportunity to what I do like is we remove it a little bit from the site. We're at a location that is a little different and comfortable for us. So currently what happens is that the principals then present.

Here's what we're doing with our school. We keep that about 30 minutes, so it's not fairly long. They can't go over every detail, but we allow them to go over Salient points. You know, what is their signature practice that they feel very comfortable about of talking about made a big difference at their school: some promising practices. They're looking forward in the future and included even some with secondary, some grading practices that we ask them to talk about. But in that we have a team of leaders, district office folks, we have other principals, their peers, and then they just present and say: Here's where we are and we've developed it over time and the relationship we have with our principes and District leaders where we feel very transparent.

So we're not there as a dog and pony show. I mean, we can look at the data, but it's more about really engaging in. Here's the true work that's happening at my site. We also at that time give other principals an opportunity to provide feedback as they're talking and then we ask questions along the way. So the area superintendent are myself are looking up that feedback on another screen and then asking those questions and it's not meant, it's not a gotcha type of question, but more so. Can you elaborate on this?

You know I find that's a great practice and maybe I can use it in my school. So I have a few questions. Yeah, so the principal know and the leaders know that on the spot they're going to be given you know, prompts or questions to elaborate and I'll tell you what. They deeply know where their schools are positive or negative. You know. They know where they are and where they're going and really, truly, that's what we ask is.

It's not about proficiency, what it is about where are you know that and where are you going next in each one of these aspects?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that I will just say from someone who had the opportunity to observe and watch one. You really did create the culture to have those conversations like from my observation because talking about data can be really hard and challenging to be able to be vulnerable, to stand up in front of a group of your peers and say like this is where we are, these are either the gains that we made or we didn't make gains, and to be able to own that and then talk through it and then receive feedback from all of the other principals in the room. It was really powerful. So I mean one: you created that culture for that to happen in a really meaningful way. And the other piece that really stood out to me, Tim, and I'd love to hear a little bit more about, like your process and really putting that forward and creating that space to be vulnerable. Every one of your principals was really dialed into their data.

I mean, they were able to stand up in front of everyone and clearly speak to and varying levels, of course, but for the most part, all of them to speak to. Here were our Ela and math scores. Here's where we saw by grade level. Here were the things that we're really excited about. Here are the things that we either have more questions or we have to be able to address. I mean, they were really clear and specific and that data was then driving their plans, and so I'd love for you just to hear a little bit about how has that culture been fostered and developed, the work that you guys are doing around that, creating that culture of data literacy, also within your leadership.

I'd love for you to speak to that.

Tim Lopez: Yeah, you know, Rachael, I would say, if we go back, is been our steadfast work with our professional learning communities. Yeah, because we that data analysis is embedded in the daily work that our teachers, grade level plts, are looking at that data so that expect a not only is with the leaders but also with the teachers, the teacher leaders on site. So I think it's an ingrained process at which we're always looking at some sort of data to then drive the decisions in what we're doing. And you know programs like Parsec that help us out with the data. You know you can't hide it's, it's is transparent and we share our data in our Data Systems. Any PR principal can look at any other school's data and if they know that a third grade practice they're struggling with, they're going to look at another School site, reach out to that principal and say, hey, your third grade is really just this particular group of standards in math is really hitting it.

Can I, my team, come and see that? So not only have we done that as a sight level PLT, but across the district. So I think what happens is that you know it's not about good or bad, right, it's rather where are we with the data and how we moving forward? And you know, I'll have to say, is that, through the pandemic, that was very difficult, and coming back from the pandemic, using that data in a manner that isn't a gotcha, but more so, where are you, was very difficult, and I'll tell you some of my old school principals, way back when, with that level of accountability, was very Salient for us. Our new principals were not used to that. Yeah, initially after the pandemic, it's like: well, hold on, you know, here's where we are, and it's like we don't have to preate, create rationalizations for where you are.

I just need to know that you know where you are. Yeah, and you know where you're going, because each of us are in different Journeys. You know, and we even found with teachers they were all at different Journeys of where they were. And I do truly feel, though, is that you know, in our state, we, our kids, are back. Accountability is like, okay, that's part of what we do and let's keep moving forward, and so I would say that data helps us. It's very transparent.

They feel comfortable sharing what that looks like. When we first started on the journey, you know you didn't have grade levels sharing their data of how kids are doing. You didn't have grade level sharing kids and deploying out kids yeah, in third grade. But I think it's embracing where kids are and trying to improve now. We're a long way to being perfect. We have a long way to go yet and we're finding through.

The pandemic is many teachers or even kids or groups of kids, have really rebounded strongly, whereas others we know those discrepancies exist. So part of our journey right now is really trying to maximize every single teacher with every single student and get that real consistency. That we felt was a really Hallmark of Sanger Unified is that it didn't matter what teacher in third grade or what school you had: the same type of analysis of data, same type of level of instruction and it was across the board, and so we're close to that now, but we still know that we are working on that.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, you know we talk a lot at Parsec. About how data typically is seen as a hammer, versus what we hope to do with some of our partners, like you, is that it turns into a flashlight, that it becomes really about this belief and embrace of continuous Improvement, because there's things that I'm going to be really good at and there are gaps that I'm going to have. But that's the power of a team is being able to say and identify: but you're really strong here, can you come along side of me, can I learn from you, can be engaged together. And I love, Tim, that you and your team, you found a way to do this at all layers of the system, because you hear a lot about plts with teachers but you don't often hear about then. How does that then translate up into our site principals? What does that mean for our area administrators?

What does that mean for the central office? This and I love that you guys have created that through line and really approached it from that lens of continuous Improvement it's, it's. Powerful.

Tim Lopez: I do think one thing and I want to add that is very exciting to me is this idea of growth. Yeah, right, the state is coming up with a new analysis of student growth, that individual student growth, how we Analyze That collectively. Our new superintendent has come with. The first goal of every child is going to have at least a years of growth. Right, so that's been pressing us to say, okay, so we know proficiency, we know the dashboards, yeah, but what does that look like? You know, when 30 kids enter my classroom, it is my job to make sure that each child grows a year as a result of all the work I do for that child.

And we know there's some students. They need more than that. You know, we need to accelerate more because just a year is not going to catch them up. Yeah, so I think that concept, I really hope that is propelling, you know, the rest of the state to really look at growth, because I'll tell you this, we have our high-end, you know. 20% free reduced and we have 99% free reduced. So those students and scores, the growth is equalizer, right, growth.

When we look at that, we can celebrate growth of all students. You know, and that's an important piece to me, it's it's not about the accolades of only the ones at the top, but how are we getting each student to understand and teacher that it's all about student growth for their future?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, that's right. And, like you said, being able to identify those places where we have to accelerate. You know it's going to actually take more than a year, but at least you see that, at least you have the data now to be able to say, okay, these are the kids. One of my favorite analogies that somebody shared with me is that multi-tiered systems of supports are like ice cream cones, like who are the kids that just need an extra scoop of ice cream? But you can't identify that if you don't have the data to be able to see it. So you guys are laying to such a pivotal Foundation.

I'm a huge advocate and believer that if we don't have data to understand current reality, you actually can't get better at impr. So I kudos to you guys. Tim, I' love, with the rest of our time, just to hear a little bit from you, and you've kind of alluded to a few things. Like you're, you're holding a really big role at Sanger. The Central Valley is, I would say, a place in desperate need of vision and support, and education is just pival to the kids in the valley. What keeps you up at night as you think about the students within your.

System.

Tim Lopez: For me it is ensuring that all students have that opportunity. You know, when we talk about that level of consistency is, how do we maintain that? Because when that does occur, the students that are falling through the cracks, you know, were able to see them and hear them and work through them. And I think, really, for me it is and I'll have to say, you know, being a kid that went to UC La it's important for our high-end kids to be pushed. Yeah, right, be, you know, middle-end kids need to be pushed and it might be high in math and low in English language arts, but taking the student by need individually, I think that's what we have to maintain and you know it. Plans are plans, but what keeps me up at night is: to what degree are we implementing those to ensure happens?

Rachael Maves: Yeah, absolutely. And as you think about that piece, like the keeping kids from falling through the cracks, what do you see as one or two ways that you can ensure that doesn't happen within your. System.

Tim Lopez: Well, one of the things Sanger Unified has really done that I have just so much applauded is that we recognize there's the seal component of students that falls through the cracks that we just don't see, and I think it's important to gather data for that. We have one source. We're trying a new source with the Parsec res that I'm really interested. The qualitative data side that we haven't ventured into. Yeah, so I think really it is, it has to be. You know, sometimes it's people will say, well, I'm juggling all these balls, I'm worried about math and Ela, How can I possibly worry about seal?

Well, the answer is yes, it's, and it's not. Or you know, our students that are struggling socially or emotionally, they're not going to get to that quadratic equation.

Rachael Maves: Yeah right, that's right.

Tim Lopez: So we definitely have to provide. So those are the cracks that for us, you know, not only do we look at academic mtss but SE as well as behavioral, because we feel it's that whole piece and the better we get at identifying and providing support for those students, especially the ones that don't stand out but are really just struggling, the better we get at that and the more support we have, the better I think our students will be off.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up. Is something I mean you know because you've been in so many conversations with us. This marrying of the data qualitative and quantitative it's, I really believe it is just so critically important, for if we're going to make change within our systems, the quantitative really tells us like the area, like hey, you need to focus here, but it's the qualitative that says: but this is the why behind it, and here's how you get to that deep root cause to make sure that whatever Solutions you're putting in place actually are the right lever to change outcomes for the students, the end user. And one of the things I'm excited to see for you guys and I'd love to hear just how you're already thinking about using real and for our listeners I should back up for those of you who don't know, real is our qualitative data platform where a teacher, a principal, a central office staff can create a series of questions that are open-ended, send it out and then either students, families, community members can respond with video, audio or text and then, on the back end, AI will synthesize all of that data for you and give you your top theme, show you examples. So you have now this really rich way to capture qualitative data at scale and, with the partners that we've had so far, we had one teacher that I'll give an example that used parac real just to kind of start to get to know our kids at the beginning of the year, and one of the questions that she asked which I recommend and we do this now in our trainings to always start with this question with teachers in the classroom for the kids is: what is one thing that you wish I about you as your teacher that would be helpful lead here, and we had you know the best answers, Tim. Like some I was able to see of kids saying things like I wish you knew that I was a magician and I love to do this, or I wish you knew that, like, here are my interest.

And then we had kids that were saying I wish you knew that my family is going through this really hard time and it takes so much effort just for me to come to school. I mean, it's things like that. I think that touch on that piece that you're sharing around. When we think about the barriers or the ways to engage kids, it comes through those really rich spaces of the qualitative data. So I'd love just to hear the thoughts that you might have about how your team's already thinking about using real and what that looks like.

Tim Lopez: Well, you know, I will tell you that we haven't engaged in real per se, yeah. However, I would say here's a reason why we are is that we have participated in the past of developing these in the interviews. Yeah, so it's a process in which we individually meet with kids, talk to them, take video of them. Yeah, put that together and it, you know, we can get maybe 10 kids, 30 kids across the board. Part of our community schools grants is really to solicit information from kids and parents, right, so we've done those on our own, these empathy interviews, and first of all, I will tell you they're very powerful. That's right and it really resonates.

I'm thinking of my elementary teachers that just have such a huge heart, right, they look at data and like, okay, Mr Lopez, I see 15, 115 and 235. They see the scale scores and okay, but when they hear their one of their children talk, yeah, about what they gained from their teacher, it just melts them, you know, and they realize either hey, great, or oh, I can work on that. We've had our superintendent, with all of our leaders, provide some of these empathy interviews and shown them to our leaders. Yes, and it's, it's a real like. Either it is like, oh my gosh, I didn't know we did that, and there's there's tears in the audience, or there's a real gut check of, oh my gosh, we're not addressing that. Yes, right.

So it's very powerful in terms of really hitting you with more than just the data and numbers. You know, I like numbers, but I also like that piece. I mean, it fills your soul, right, it really feels your soul of like, why are we here? Yeah, and when you hear that and some of them are so funny you just get a kick out of it, right, you're just like, oh my gosh, what the mouth of babes? Right, because they're just, they're just funny and like, okay, I remember that kid, yeah, and I never knew what he was thinking. So it draws that out of him and I think the qualitative analysis is important and with AI that we have, why not?

Rachael Maves: Yes, right, we can synthesize through Parsec reel the work hundreds of hours in a short period of time.

Tim Lopez: That's right, yeah, so that's for me, is visualization of taking those little elements of the empathy interviews that we've done and we look back and say, well, we want more, but we can't because we can't spend that Manpower. So this will enable us, when we get it going you know, widespread yeah, to provide that and gain that Insight just in another way.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, I love it. I can't wait. I'm super excited about your journey with this and so glad that we get to partner together on it. So thanks for allowing us to come alongside of you. It's going to be a fun Journey. Final question, and then we'll wrap up: what question in education are we not asking right now that we really should?

Be.

Tim Lopez: You know, I would say this: how are we preparing students for the future? Because everything we just talked about in terms of standards and data, it's really focused, hyperfocused sometimes, on a third grade standard of ela, right? So my big question of I had the fortunate piece with my parents we're always thinking about the future and asking us a lot of questions, you know, looking for Role Models, you know trying to provide. Although this isn't our life, here's one thing that you can think about in the future, and so I think that education is means for the future. Are we really asking those questions, you know, and not for a grant, but more so, just deeply embedded? You know, we've jumped into a few things and asked ourselves those questions because you get so.

Microscopically focused on. You know, like I said, fourth grade fractions. You know it's a, it's a means to an end. Yeah, you know, and I think that's that's the real key for me is: you know what does a future look like for our kids? And are we in the valley preparing our kids to again compete on a global level? Because we don't know what it's going to look like in 30 years, but we know this: it's going to be a smaller Global society that we need to repair our kids for their future and you know those standards and Mastery and graphs well.

Let's all preparing them for the future.

Rachael Maves: Yeah, thank you, Tim. I really appreciate that. Thank you for coming on the podcast, for sharing your heart for the awesome and excellent work that is happening at Sanger. I just really appreciate your time today. Thank you for joining me.

Tim Lopez: All right, Rachael. Thank you so much.

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This transcript was created from the episode's captions and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors; please refer to the audio for exact wording.